Talk:Music of Croatia

Partisanship
User:Shallot wrote ''it seems that we need some mediation between the klape and gusle advocates, each of which wish to disown the others... mass copyedit''

I have all the Music of XXX articles on my watchlist, and after the last anon edit, I was wondering if there was a slow-motion edit war going on here, since it sure seemed like the wording had been switched back and forth a couple times. Would either of you anonymous users care to discuss it? Tuf-Kat 15:50, Apr 17, 2004 (UTC)


 * It's not really an unexpected quarrel, people disagree over this in real life just as well. But since each of the two styles can be accused of being an import, unpatriotic, unoriginal or whatever, I just killed off those inflamatory bits and rephrased stuff in a more neutral way. --Shallot 23:14, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC)

66.185.85.80's rant
Presently, we are witnessing an open war against Croatian Dinaric culture. Croatian Left often portrays this culture as "primitive" and "rural" (even "fashist") being in  service of Conservative HDZ party. Croatian writer Predrag Raos, for instance, "performed" on gusle instrument in Zagreb on several occasions this year (2004) with only one intention - to ridicule the same instrument and its rich poetic tradition. Another "apostle" of Croatian Left - Miljenko Jergović - refers to his political opponents on the Right as "gusle players".

Some even claim the Serbian origin of Croatian Dinaric culture following the line of traditional greater Serbian propagabda (all štokavian people and their culture are Serbian). However, Croatian Dinaric folklore and its rich gusle heritage is primarly Croatian. Dalmatian costal region has been historically associated with this culture. For example, the first written document about the most popular folk hero of traditional gusle music, Marko Kraljević, is associated with Dalmatian island Hvar through Petar Hektorović's book "Ribanje i ribarsko prigovaranje", 1568). Also, the first historical document which mentioned gusle player and its instrument originated in Dubrovnik (1547). Even now, a contemporary Croatian writer (born in Dubrovnik) Stijepo Mijović Kočan tells us a story about his uncle (also from Dubrovnik area) who could memorize numerous gusle songs (Stijepo Mijović Kočan: Gusle, Glasnik, May 25, 1992, p. 42). Dubrovnik is also a home of Anica Begin (born Kalafatović, 1816), a daughter of famous gusle player Ante. Although illiterate, she was able to recite by heart an immense number of gusle songs, some of which were recorded in antology of Croatian folk poetry. Not far from Dubrovnik, another coastal city - Makarska – was  also a bastion of Croatian gusle music. Actually, this region could be considered the Capital of all Croatian gusle players. This Mediterranean area also gave birth to  Andrija Kačić Miošić (18th century Catholic priest), who is  viewed as the father of all gusle players of Croatia and beyond. To honour Kačić's work, Ivan Meštrović, the most famous Croatian sculptor, built a sculpture in America showing Kačić in his priestly clothes playing gusle instrument.

In addition to Kačić, Makarska Littoral produced a great many other followers of Croatian gusle music. According to dr. fra Karlo Jurišić (who quotes the work of Croatian folklorist Stipan Banović), Zaostrog alone produced a great number of gusle players starting with Stipan Kosović-Kudrić (1771-1818) and culminating with the most known Mate Banović – Trliš (1844-1915). As for Dalmatian women, they didn't play gusle (it's   considered   a male activity only), yet they were actively involved in spreading  gusle music  by  imitating its sound.

Olinko Delorko, the researcher of Dalmatian  folk poetry in the 1960s, states in his book Ljuba Ivanova (1969) that most of his Dalmatian folk poetry collection was obtained by  women, especially the ones from the island of Hvar.

The Zadar Littoral also witnessed strong gusle tradition. English writer Maude M. Holbach, travelling through Zadar region in the first decade of 20th century states in her book  "Dalmatia: The Land Where East Meets West" that the gusle was the national instrument of the region. As for Dinaric dances, which took place at markets and certain festivals, they are very picturesque and interesting, and worth going a long way to see, being a survival of ancient custom probably unique in Europe (p.54)

This admiration for Dinaric folk music, particularly gusle, was seen in both Dalmatian Litteral and Hinterland. Matija Murko, the researcher of this literary/music forms, had reported   that during his trips  through Dalmatia in the 1930s, he saw a child, barely three years old playing gusle (Eduard Osredečki: “Hrvatske narodne junačke pjesme”, Željezno-Beč, p. 9)

Now, lets take a look at  the names of some Dalmatian sports clubs and organizations: Hajduk, Junak, Gusar, Alkar, Uskok, sinjska alka, etc. What do they have in common? Of course, their names refer to the heroic gusle tradition of the region.

Having this in mind, one wonders why this proud Croatian heritage has become almost extinct. Why do we have so few gusle players today ? Is it a result of  unavoidable urbanization  of  modern Croatian society where peasant culture is being considered  inferior to global  rock 'n' roll  culture ? If so, why has tamburitza music of Northern Croatia gained wide acceptance from the Croatian establishment while its  Dinaric counterpart (gusle music) is looked upon with suspicion and  open hatred?

In the world of cultures, the bigger fish eats the smaller one. Anglo-Saxon culture (rock 'n' rall music, entertainment, Hollywood, etc) reigns around the world because it is a product of the most powerful nations. The same rule reflects our  Croatian milieu as well. Thus, the music culture (tamburitza) of  northern Croatia   is by  its  proximity to the Croatian Capital in  more favourable position  than  the “peasants” down in the boondocks.

Also, the fact that Croatians of Dalmatia have generally renounced the folk heritage of their  forefathers in favour of  “more civilized” Italian culture (their  former oppressors), this certainly  speaks volumes abouth the collective well-being of the nation. Even some towns in Dalmatian hinterland (such as Sinj or Imotski), where mandolina or klapa singing have never existed before, these towns boast themselves of their “Mediterranean” identity by establishing mandolina/klapa groups. Isn't this, after all, similar to Bosnian sevdalinka music? After so many centuries of slavery under the Turkish occupation, the Bosnian victims identified themselves with their former collonial masters. The only difference between Italian masters and Ottomans was in their torture techniques. The Turks, among the other things, have   mounted their subjects on spikes while Italians/Venece prefered  slave galley.

Now, let's compare the music of American blacks (former slaves) to the Croatian Dinarics. The American blacks have introduced banjo instrument to the American population long time ago and now  it's become American national instrument. Next, the once despised jazz music of blacks in the American south has now become mainstream. Rap music? The same story. Now, let's move to Great Britain for a moment. Everyone knows how much the British cherish their bagpipe (similar to Croatian mišnice/diple). It's become a symbol of the whole nation glorified through popular media, schools and churches.

In short, the folk heritage of other Western nations flourish (including the former slaves) while the Croatian Dinaric culture is on the verge of extinction. In the name of globalization we are forced into museums like the prehistoric dinosaurus. And nobody cares!

-Then why are you humiliating yourselves with your forced ‘Croatian’ nationality? Why don’t you finally accept the fact that you, the people from Zagora with the rest of Dalmatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Montenegro and most of Serbia, no matter how you call yourselves-‘Serbs’, ‘Croats’ or ‘Bosnians’-you all are THE SAME PEOPLE! You all have the same national instruments like ‘gusle’, your ‘guslars’ they all sing epic songs mostly about the Serbian knight Marko Kraljevic and his battles with the Turks, you all dance the same national dance-‘kolo’, you all speak THE SAME DIALECT of SERBOCROATIAN LANGUAGE-SHTOKAVIAN, which is also the basis for all politically created ‘writing standards’ coming from it:-‘Croatian’, ‘Serbian’, ‘Bosnian’, and now also ‘Montenegrin’ and ‘Bunjevac’, and so on. Why don’t you wake up and overthrow the lies you’ve been living with for years and years? Many enemies of the south Slavic union in the past were constantly brainwashing you, telling you lies that those ones of you that are ‘Catholics’(Croats) are ‘different’ than those ones that are ‘Orthodox’(Serbs) or ‘Muslims’(Bosniaks) and vice-versa. Now you can see that it is all just bullshit! You can also see that all divisions between you are something artificial, something insane and something that needs to be eliminated very soon! Why don’t you pick a name for your Shtokavian nation, unite yourselves and be proud to be united? You can go under ‘Dalmatians’, ‘Shtokavians’ or ‘Dinarians’, something that would sound neutral and something that would replace the names like ‘Serb’, ‘Croat’ or ‘Muslim’, names which have caused all the fratricidal wars between you in the past?! As a nation, you can be full of potentials, you’ll possess the most beautiful coast in Europe and if you unite with all other Shtokavian speaking areas of former Yugoslavia-you can build a powerful state with cities like Split, Sarajevo, Rijeka, Beograd, Novi Sad, etc. A fact is that your people are assertive, smart and brave. Make yourselves strong being united and nobody will ignore all the national wealth, instruments and folk haritage that you possess. No Zagreb can decide about you any more, because you’ll be bigger and stronger that the Kajkavians from Zagreb. United will be the best option for you. The only thing you need is a good will between you, a full trust and probably a strong political factor in the areas where you inhabit to make this all possible and achievable.

At the end be realistic and don't give me anything 'greater Serbian' in this text, because there's no mention that you are 'Serbs' or so. The facts are listed as they are and at the end of the ends, after all the wars in the Balkans, the reputation of 'Croats', 'Serbs' and 'Muslims' is now identical. Best wishes and cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.86.110.10 (talk) 09:27, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Klapa Music Recorded
Klapa music is being recorded for the first time by Nenad Bach. So far he has recorded Klapa Lindjo, Sinj, and Novalja. Nenad Bach's Website

NOTE: The "nenadbach" link no longer works as of 13 Nov 2011. Steeven Radzikowski 03:05, 13 November 2011 (UTC)

What about the accordion? Coming originally from Austria and the becoming popular throughout the Alp and the Balkans it has always been a part of Croatian folklore. Since the war, the accordion is being demonised because it's popular in Bosnia and Serbia aswell. In the area of Kordun and Lika the Accordion is an essential instrument while in other regions it's more used in the background. My English is probably not good enough to write a paragraph about this instrument, so I'd be glad if someone (Croats from Canada or Australia?) could do the job.

Gde je vuco u ovaj Članak? Where is the mention of Siniša Vuco. - Lazar

Kolo?
Nothing on kolo? What's the point? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gautam3 (talk • contribs) 03:20, 22 January 2007 (UTC).

Gusle
I am not clear about Herzegovina being a region in BH with predominant Serbian population. What is the purpose of that sentence anyway?? It is an article about Croatian music.85.178.149.130 (talk) 00:33, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

Starogradske pjesme
Could someone add this to the article with some historical data?

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