Talk:Music of Germany/Archive 1

German bands
I removed the following for unencyclopedicness. The list should be moved to the list of German bands if kept. Tuf-Kat 15:13, Jun 10, 2004 (UTC)

German Music is not only Folk and something like that. There is also modern music like Rock, Pop or Rap and Hip-Hop. Many songs that are popular in the U.K. and the U.S. are known in Germany, too. Most German bands sing in English, because it is harder to understand (so people don't notice the stupid lyrics :-) and some consider it easier to rhyme. But there are also many bands that sing in German or in both languages. Here are some successful and popular German bands:


 * Addys D'Mercedes (http://www.addys.info/ - in German, English & Spanish)
 * Angelika Express (http://www.angelikaexpress.de/ - in German)
 * Beatsteaks (http://www.beatsteaks.org - in German and English)
 * Die Ärzte (http://www.bademeister.com - in German)
 * Die Beginner (http://www.beginner.de - in German
 * Die Sterne (http://www.diesterne.de - in German)
 * Die Toten Hosen (http://www.beatsteaks.org - in German and English)
 * Fettes Brot (http://www.fettesbrot.de - in German)
 * Guano Apes (http://www.guanoapes.org - in German and English)
 * Kettcar (http://www.kettcar.net - in German)
 * Mia (http://www.miarockt.de - in German)
 * Scooter (http://www.scootertechno.com - in German and English)
 * Seeed (http://www.seeed.de - in German and English)
 * Slime (http://www.slime.de - in German)
 * Sportfreunde Stiller (http://www.sportfreunde-stiller.de - in German)
 * Subway to Sally (http://www.subwaytosally.com - in German and English)
 * Such A Surge (http://www.suchasurge.de - in German)
 * Tocotronic (http://www.tocotronic.de - in German)
 * Tomte (http://www.tomte.de - in German)
 * Ton Steine Scherben (no good website)
 * Virginia Jetzt! (http://www.virginia-jetzt.de - in German)
 * Wir sind Helden (http://www.wirsindhelden.com - in German)
 * Wizo (http://www.wizo.de - in German and English)
 * Xavier Naidoo (http://www.xaviernaidoo.de - in German)

Burgher-highlife
Looking through the history, it appears several people (or one dedicated person) feels that mention of Ghanaian-German music is inappropriate in this article. Would anyone like to justify that? Tuf-Kat 15:20, Jun 10, 2004 (UTC)

Techno
I'm quite surprised that Kraftwerk does not show up in the list. They're supposed to be the "inventor" of Techno, at least they are the first popular band of this genre. I don't know much about them, but they are definitely german and sing in german. So, where are they? Why is there no subsection for electronic music? It was once thought of as the new german music style.
 * The reason for both your questions is that no one has written it. You can create a section for techno the same way you edited this talk page. Tuf-Kat 00:26, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)

+

The Techno section is important for the music of Germany. I expanded it to go beyond Kraftwerk and Scooter to more-or-less the present-day. Sonja Strom 19:38, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Music of Germany is not German music
The article "Music of Germany" starts with "Forms of German music ..." which sounds if there were no other German music but in Germany. I think it is the difference between "deutschsprachig" (in German) or "aus Deutschland" (from Germany) or "Deutschlands" (of Germany). I would say that German music covers all German speeking countries "DACH": Germany (D), Austria (A) and Switzerland (CH). More precise: Switzerland is not a German speeking country, but a country where German is spoken ... as well. ;-) --Roland2 10:49, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, we have a music of Switzerland and music of Austria. I think trying to put all kinds of German-speaking peoples' music in one article will result in a much too long article, which will need to be split into several... and international lines would be a logical place to do so.  This article should certainly compare and contrast the music of Germany with the music of Germans in Austria, Switzerland, United States, Canada and anywhere else Germans may be.    What specifically would you like to change? Tuf-Kat 22:05, Jan 7, 2005 (UTC)


 * I think there is no need for a big change, it's all ok :-) However, would it be ok to start the article with e. g. "The musik of Germany includes forms such as ...". For me "Forms of German music" sounds a bit like "Forms of music in German language" although it means "Forms of music from Germany" in this context. I am no native speaker so don't care, if it is a bad idea ;-) --Roland2 00:53, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay, I think I misinterpeted what you wanted. Starting the article The music of Germany includes forms such as would be fine. Tuf-Kat 05:31, Jan 8, 2005 (UTC)
 * Sorry for the irritation. Even in German it would have been not so easy for me to expalin what I mean. ;-) Regards --Roland2 09:34, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC) Roland
 * I don't agree. "Music of Germany" should come from Germany, without question.  Furthermore, may I suggest that pre-German historical influences, like Mozart for instance, are not made German by implication. Alan Parmenter (talk) 02:12, 26 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Mozart has repeatedly said he was German, and there is no indication he ever said he was Austrian. Who exactly are you to tell he was wrong? Lars T. (talk) 11:14, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

The Beatles. Swing rebels
Is it worth it to mention the Hamburger rockabilly band The Beatles (with the Hamburger context)? Some would say that they are more famous than Jesus Christ.

And what about the Swing rebels?
 * I don't know what swing rebels are, but both should probably be mentioned. Tuf-Kat 01:27, Jan 27, 2005 (UTC)

Delisted GA
There are no images. slambo 17:41, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

New approach
I started a new approach. The old article was not representive at all. I hope, the new structure is more helpful for extension. But there is still much do. Please apologize my poor English. --Abe Lincoln 17:55, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree the former article was not good, but I don't think your changes helped. Nothing personal, but, AFAICT, you moved stuff around and made a more confusing layout, deleted the references and added some broken English here and there.  What, exactly, are you trying to do? Tuf-Kat 18:16, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

It is very hard to make one article about the music of one country. I'm sorry if the suggested outline is complicated, but the German music is manifold. I am from Germany and I can assure you that the old article was not representive at all and therefore rubbish. The new outline represents the complex natural structure of German Pop Music. So stop complaining and improve it further. I will try to answer all questions and regard all hints and recommondations. --Abe Lincoln 19:15, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
 * You posted here, presumably asking for comments, so I gave comments. That's not complaining.  And what's there now is just as much rubbish as what came before -- it's virtually all the same content anyway. Tuf-Kat 03:59, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

It took my whole Sunday only to restructure the third and last part. I added essential information that was missing (Udo Lindenberg, Herbert Grönemeyer). I know, there is still a lot to do. But once again: make suggestions, ask questions or improve it yourself. I can not see, how kvetching helps anyone. --Abe Lincoln 11:07, 7 November 2005 (UTC)


 * It seems somewhat weird to on the one hand see "Wir sind Helden" already listed, but no mention of Xavier Naidoo, despite the fact that he's been around longer. --OliverH 14:08, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Opera
Hello, fellow wikipedians, I was hoping I could find somebody here to help out. Over on the German_opera page, there's something of a disaster going on. Having said that, a similar disaster seems to be taking place here. Anyway, I'm looking for an opera expert, or at least a person who knows more about German Opera than I do, to come over to the German Opera page and do some renovation. I came up with a to-do list that I put up there. I'd be more than happy to develop one for this article as well. Let me know. Xeinart 04:23, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Carmina Burana
May I´m blind, but I have not found any sentence about Carmina Burana, but it is a must in this article.--84.175.197.52 23:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

What about Jazz-musicians?
Volker Kriegel, oder Rock: Inga Rumpf Habibie 01:13, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

Neue Deutsche Härte and Gothic
NDH ist genuinely German style of music, and bands like Oomph! or Rammstein, are really considered in this article, despite its popularity in mainstream as well as underground music of Germany.

Furthermore, the German Goth Scene is not mentioned within this article, although Germany can be regarded somehow the center of the international goth Scene.

This should be altered. --80.136.27.54 22:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Sectioning is inappropiate
It is inappropiate, to classify or group different styles of music according to the langauges of their songs, as most musicians and listeners don't draw a sharp distinction like this article suggest. There are simply no styles of music that can be classified by language, especially since many bands alter their language from time to time. This classification is as useful, as classifying music by the sex of the lead singer.

Therefore, I'd recommend the post-war section into "Post-war East German" and "Post-War West-German", and make the post-reunification era a section on its own. Maybe it is even pointless to make such a strong division between East and West German during the time of the wall.
 * I suggest to subsection the pieces of information according to styles of music.

--80.136.27.54 22:25, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Furthermore, I think it is totally wrong that German language and Englisch language music developed independently in Germany. I will put a new structure to this article.

Post-War Pop Music
 * Music from East Germany
 * Music from West Germany and from Reunified Germany
 * Volksmusik und Schlager
 * Liedermacher
 * Neue Deutsche Welle
 * Commercial Pop
 * Soul
 * HipHop
 * Hamburger Schule
 * Recent Pop Music Developments
 * Punk
 * Rock
 * Metal
 * Goth and "Schwarze Szene"
 * Electro
 * Techno, Trance

I renewed the structure of this article --80.136.22.147 17:53, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

+

In general I agreed with this, and did move some of the structure around to reflect it more closely (although not exactly).

I also think two changes should be made to the box in the upper-right (which I can't figure out how to alter or I would just do so myself).

1) Under "Regional music" I would add "Ostrock," because it is a style of philosophically-oriented progressive rock only existing in the former GDR.

2) Under "Other Germanic areas" I would add "Switzerland".

--Sonja Strom 19:46, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Non-German Composers etc. (Geographie)
Hayden was from Austria, W.A. Mozart was from Austria too (there ist a long discussin on the German WP). Vienna ist the Capitol of Austria. The Article describes music of germens speaking areas. Not Music from Germany. Sorry, my german is better then my english. -- 89.59.30.148 (talk) 17:48, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

A key point to get across is that German culture, including German classical music, is bigger than the current German borders, with influences between the North sea and the Black sea. Handel and Mozart also worked in multiple languages - this is still expected from a professional musician.

The structural problem might best be solved by splitting off German classical music into a separate article: On this topic the main things missing are: - The reformation (Chorales): The reformation was the driving force, many were verse settings of Psalms. Other evangelical communities were setting up shop in a similar way, e.g. Calvin & C.Goudimel in France, J.Knox in Scotland, and they built on each other's ideas. Later a discussion on whether good music made good christians put the brakes on this musical innovation. The Catholic counter-reformation followed with a tradition of baroque church music to match the baroque church architecture. - The Mannheim School is worth a mention, being a major transition between baroque and classical music. Note that Germans refer to the Classical style of Haydn and Mozart as the Viennese Classical period, since Vienna played such a dominant role. - German composers in Hollywood, as film composers are arguably the legitimate heirs of classical music after the second world war.

Marlon Knauer
I just created the article titled Marlon Knauer. Clearly it should be listed under the "reunified Germany" section, but I'm not sure more specifically which subheading. Can someone who knows the genres better than I do attend to that? Thanks. Michael Hardy (talk) 17:27, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Punk Bands
Quote: "Even most Germans don't know that there are a lot of punk bands with their primary audience in Japan, which stay relatively unknown to German listeners." Sorry, what does this mean? Any Examples? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.24.108.168 (talk) 12:21, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

Die Gedanken sind frei
The song "Die Gedanken sind frei" is an old folk song from the early 19th century (~1810-1820). In history it was often used in times when the liberty of people was in danger (for example in 1948 after a speech of Ernst Reuther short time after the soviets start the Berlin Blockade). Maybe somebody with better english skills than me can integrate this article with a link in this "Music of Germany"-arcticle. Thanks a lot =) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.191.192.28 (talk) 21:18, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

This is a great point, not just with reference to this song, too little known among Englist speakers. The soldiers of various wars, the socialists and the Nazis rewrote the words of many folk tunes to align with their thinking. See e.g. E.Klusen Volkslieder aus 500 Jahren, DTV Verlag.

Ich + Ich
"Artists on the cutting edge of German-language techno include Ich + Ich and Klee."

Ich + Ich are a typical German pop music group. Does anyone see a connection to techno?! If yes, please explain to me. 77.188.88.159 (talk) 14:10, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This isn't about what Germans call "Techno/Tekkno" (Hardcore techno), but the more general Techno. Still doesn't quite fit, neither group is that "dancy". Lars T. (talk) 21:07, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Aus Böhmen kommt die Musik
This hit title from popular music makes an important historical point. Public schooling before 1800 in Bohemia gave high priority to music, so much so that the region became a source of professional musicians for the remaining German courts. c.f. Mozart in Vienna, V.Braunbehrens, p 295 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.104.156.242 (talk) 16:14, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Center of Techno
I've heard that some ravers call Dortmund the "Capital of Techno",cause of "MAYDAY". --188.100.29.173 (talk) 17:36, 30 May 2010 (UTC) That is true but we need more sources to include it into the article.

Moreover it should be added how German electronic music influenced european genres. Boys Noize is another largely known artist but i can't find any english resources and I am not able to proof this one: boys-noize-unser-mann-in-amerika --77.168.158.244 (talk) 20:38, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Metal article heavily focused on sick forms of metal
Anybody here tried to listen to the bands from that list which take 50% space of the whole article? Go to the homepage of the band Darkened Nocturn Slaughtercult and listen. Other names - Necrophagist, Atrocity, Crematory, Fleshcrawl, Suidakra...

LodovicoAriosto — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.200.57.137 (talk) 17:43, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

NDW roots
"an outgrowth of British punk rock and ..." - There is no documentation for this assertion. Maybe NDW DID come from punk, but listening to it, there is no indication that it is related. So, this claim needs documentation -- as does so much of this article. 202.179.19.22 (talk) 05:41, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

GERMAN ARTICLE
Oh the irony... So we have quite an extensive article on German music in the English Wiki. But no one in the German? lol. '''Let's get it started! de:Musik in Deutschland' (to make way for an open approach, we shouldn't call the lemma Deutsche Musik'' or something). Cheers, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 22:32, 1 December 2013 (UTC)

Reorganisation of the article
I propose a complete reorganisation of this article. It suffers from numerous short paragraphs and lengthy sections. It's highly confusing. A good role model imho is the Music of France article. According to this one, I suggest a similar order of content:

1 Classical music 1.1 Medieval 1.2 Renaissance 1.3 Baroque 1.4 Opera 1.5 Romantic Era 1.6 20th century 2 Folk music Regional order? 3 Popular music Early forms (Schlager etc.) 4 Contemporary music 4.1 NNDW 4.2 Jazz 4.3 Pop 4.4 Rock 4.5 Metal 4.6 Electronic 4.7 Dance 4.8 Hip Hop 4.9 Reggae ... etc.   6 International music 6.1 German-language music from Austria, Switzerland; other countries 7 Popular festivals (or rather sort it by genres? though they're very mixed in Germany) 8 Music journals 9 References 10 External links

What do you think? Cheers, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 12:55, 14 December 2013 (UTC)


 * Off the top of my head I would add something non-German music that has a particular following in Germany. I am thinking of oddities like David Hasselhof that have a larger following in Germany than their home country. Agathoclea (talk) 20:12, 22 December 2013 (UTC)


 * I'm not sure I got that. No one in Germany really ever cared for the Hoff ;) Cheers, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 21:48, 24 December 2013 (UTC)

Any more input? Thanks, Horst-schlaemma (talk) 10:35, 15 June 2014 (UTC)


 * I definantly support this, though if there's a significant difference in East and West pre-unification tastes, I'd want that distinction yo be retained.--krimin_killr21(talk) 04:19, 24 November 2014 (UTC)


 * I agree, but metal and NDW should be subcategories of rock, as they are rock subgenres. MA SHAUN IX 10:24, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Wikimedia Commons for images and other files
A Wikimedia Commons Category should be created for this article, including artists, performances, venues, etc. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 14:07, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

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Klezmer
I intend to take Klezmer out of the "World music" section and give Klezmer its own sub-heading. I believe Klezmer does not fit under "World music" and deserves its own section. I will solely elaborate on Klezmer in the 1980s through the 1990s. I plan to keep the first sentence about Klezmer in the "World music" section, but I will delete the second sentence. I May word the first sentence differently as I see fit. The second sentence seems out-of-context, and just needs some clarification if anything. I will elaborate on how Klezmer grew significantly after the fall of the Berlin Wall. I will talk about when Americans started to adopt Klezmer in Germany/Eastern Europe. I will touch lightly on Giora Feidman because he was a significant influential figure in the Klezmer movement. I will elaborate on the new style Klezmer brought into Europe in the late 1980s. Finally, I will add the New Wave of Klezmer that emerged in the late 1990s. Altogether I plan to use 200-300 words. The source I will be using for this information is Virtually Jewish: Reinventing Jewish Culture in Europe, written by Ellen Ruth Gruber, University of California Press, 2002. Gruber is the author of several peer-reviewed publications, including the one stated in the previous sentence. If anyone wants to comment on these changes, please let me know on this Talk Page or on my Talk Page. Dylan2269 (talk) 19:29, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2019 and 5 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Dylan2269.

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