Talk:Music of the former Netherlands Antilles/Archive 1

Error on Muzik di Zumbi
Muzik di Zumbi is a genre of music that can be played in Tumba, Seu or Danza rhythm. "Zumbi" is defined by a particular kind instrumentation and not by rhythmic pattern (Tambu and Seu are defined by their rhythmic pattern). Therefore, it is wrong to assert that Zumbi is a class under which Seu and Tambu would fall. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 200.26.211.117 (talk) 00:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC).

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: moved, since no-one seemed to be specifically objecting despite over a month's discussion Kotniski (talk) 14:13, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

Music of Aruba and the Netherlands Antilles → Music of the former Netherlands Antilles — As this article isn't just about the period between 1986 and 2010, it would seem necessary to move this article. I'm not sure how best to refer to otherwise refer to the Dutch-speaking islands of the Caribbean without the title being too long-winded. The Celestial City (talk) 14:55, 10 October 2010 (UTC) The Celestial City (talk) 14:55, 10 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Would "music of the Dutch Antilles" be an acceptable alternative? Ucucha 15:49, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm reluctant to move this to Music of the Netherlands Antilles (or Music of the Dutch Antilles) simply because that entity now doesn't exist. Maybe Music of Aruba, Curaçao, Sint Maarten and the Caribbean Netherlands? The Celestial City (talk) 17:43, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I specifically proposed Dutch instead of Netherlands Antilles because "Dutch Antilles" is (at least potentially) simply a name for those islands in the Antilles that are Dutch, similar to French Antilles (and British West Indies). Ucucha 17:58, 11 October 2010 (UTC)
 * The problem is, "Dutch Antilles" isn't an established term for the former islands of the Netherlands Antilles. As with British West Indies, which is considered dated, there isn't really a neutral term for these islands. 84.92.117.93 (talk) 19:54, 11 October 2010 (UTC)

 Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Alpha Quadrant    talk    00:24, 6 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.


 * Since there appears to be little musical commonality addressed in the article and no material dealing with the islands in common, how about split the article into Music of Curaçao and Music of Bonaire and merge the rest into the culture sections of Aruba, Statia, &c. and Culture of Saint Martin since there is only one or two sentences for each of those? —   AjaxSmack   03:12, 16 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Split article?
There is no content in the article about the music of the "former Netherlands Antilles" as a whole. Rather, there is specific information on the music of some of the islands. Since these islands are no longer a single political unit and are not a single cultural unit, it might be a good idea to split this article into Music of Curaçao and Music of Bonaire with the remaining few sentences merged into Culture of Aruba, Culture of Saint Martin, St. Eustatius, and Saba. —  AjaxSmack   19:21, 20 November 2010 (UTC)

I can understand AjaxSmack's suggestion to split the article into a section on Curaçao and one on Bonaire. Both the recent political developments and the content of the article seem to warrant that. However, some of this says more about the need to further develop the article. For example: the descriptions ofd Bonairean barí and Curaçaoan tambú are so different that one might think that they are not related. However, they are very related in terms of instrumentation, vocalization, rhythmic organization, call and response patterns, etc. Outsiders, actually have committed the faux pas of calling one by the name of the other. Similarly: seú and simadan are harvest festivals that not only have traditional similarities (despite obvious differences) but have cross-fertilized each other especially since the 19th century, with performers and dancers/participants traveling between the two islands to attend festivities. As a matter of fact, for a while, in the seventies during a revival of harvest music in Curaçao, many Curaçaoans called it simadan, instead of seú. Bonaireans in Curaçao have organized simadan both as stage performance and as street festival for many years in the past. The simadan conch shell was adopted into Curaçaoanseú and played sometimes side by side with the older cow horn. A few of the songs were adopted as well. Also, from the article you would not realize that a common element in the lyrics of Curaçao, Aruba and Bonaire is the language (called Papiamentu by Curaçaoans and Bonaireans and Papiamento by Arubans. There are linguistic differences between the islands, for sure, but the music of the three islands have common historical and current characteristics, as well as ties to the pun and social critique in popular music in the Caribbean. Although the political nomenclature does not cover the common identity between these two islands there is a cultural continuity that cannot be captured by splitting the material. I would even go as far as saying that Netherlands Antilles does not capture any of that at the level of a historical identity either because the musical heritage described here does not primarily derive from the Dutch political administration of the island, but from the various sources of music that were African, South American, Caribbean as well as European. Splitting the article, in my perspective, would be to artificially create a further barrier to bringing forth these commonalities. A possible solution would be to find a way of describing Curaçao, Aruba and Bonaire's common cultural heritage as a cultural area and updating the article to show these links. ObaTango (talk) 22:11, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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