Talk:Musitano crime family

Organized crime
Is this article not also of interest to WP:ORGANIZEDCRIME? Peter K Burian (talk) 14:45, 30 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I'd think so. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 15:12, 30 June 2017 (UTC)

Release date
So many articles say they were released from prison in 2007. Vague. But there are some that do provide specifics:

https://www.pressreader.com/canada/the-hamilton-spectator/.../281621010238414 May 3, 2017 - Musitano criminal history three generations deep in Hamilton ... of their 10year sentences and were released from prison on Oct. 4, 2006.

https://www.thespec.com/news-story/2154777-parole-board-reverses-decision-to-hold-musitano/ Jun 8, 2007 - (Jun 8, 2007) - Convicted mobster Angelo Musitano is back on the street after the National ... They were released from prison Oct. 4, 2006. Peter K Burian (talk) 18:00, 3 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Confirmed by these articles from 2006 and 2007: Both were released from prison in October 2016. http://www.pressreader.com/canada/national-post-latest-edition/20061004/281517926608877
 * title=Unease As Mobsters Set Free|date=4 October 2006


 * This one also confirms they were released October 2006 .... Angelo spent time https://www.thestar.com/news/2007/03/09/man_tied_to_1997_killing_back_in_jail.html |title=Musitano, 29, was arrested Wednesday for violating terms of his parole, which prohibited him from associating with known criminals|date=9 March 2007 Peter K Burian (talk) 12:20, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Another useful article about the release date, and Angelo's brief incarceration on alleged parole violation.

(Angelo was re-arrested in March 2007 for an alleged parole violation. He was held in the minimum security Frontenac Institution NOT PRISON until June 2007 when the parole Board decided not to return him to prison.) https://www.pressreader.com/canada/national-post-latest-edition/20070606/281608121011083|publisher=National Post|date=6 June 2007 Peter K Burian (talk) 12:59, 4 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Murdock was guilty on three counts:
 * Speedy justice for Papalia hitman - Canada - CBC News - CBC.ca www.cbc.ca/news/canada/speedy-justice-for-papalia-hitman-1.166622 Nov 25, 1998 - Professional hitman Kenneth Murdock is safely back in jail today after pleading guilty to three counts of second-degree murder, all involving .. Peter K Burian (talk) 15:01, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

No comma needed around nicknames
This was my error, adding the commas. It seems that is not necessary, as per https://books.google.ca/books?id=Pi08FdhWKI8C&pg=PA163&dq=pasquale+musitano&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwilufGGj_DUAhUB7oMKHSFCDKYQ6AEIKjAB#v=onepage&q=pasquale%20musitano&f=false Peter K Burian (talk) 17:10, 4 July 2017 (UTC)


 * Some books put brackets around nicknames. https://books.google.ca/books?id=zBbTCwAAQBAJ&pg=PA105&dq=pasquale+musitano&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwilufGGj_DUAhUB7oMKHSFCDKYQ6AEIRzAG#v=onepage&q=pasquale%20musitano&f=false However, if we then decide to call Pasquale Pat, it would not make sense to have put brackets around Pat. Peter K Burian (talk) 17:12, 4 July 2017 (UTC)

Draft:Pat Musitano
Should this draft be accepted as a separate article? Robert McClenon (talk) 03:15, 30 January 2020 (UTC)
 * I had messaged User:Wraithjuggler here stating that a stand-alone article about Pat Musitano was presently unnecessary, especially since pretty much everything from this crime family article was used on his article, to which he replied that it was unnecessary. So I think everyone's on the same page that Pat Musitano should remain a redirect unless further notable developments take place. Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 03:50, 30 January 2020 (UTC)

Mafia in Guelph?
fyi, Vaselineeeeeeee:

Less than a week after Papalia’s murder, police reported seeing Pat Musitano meet with Rizzuto in Guelph. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/07/10/hamilton-mobster-pat-musitano-shot-dead-in-burlington.html

That is surprising; the Guelph mob did work in Hamilton but none of them were among the well-known members. Perhaps Guelph was a suitable low profile area for the meeting. Peter K Burian (talk) 14:12, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I feel like it was your latter thought. I know Guelph had Tony Sylvestro back in the 50s but doubt there is a big presence there anymore. You could feel Pat's death was imminent attempt after attempt. He must've still been in the game and refused to stop (although there haven't been sources on that since before he killed Papalia). Vaselineeeeeeee★★★ 14:26, 11 July 2020 (UTC)


 * @<b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>: Peter Edwards' book does name some mobsters from Guelph but I had never heard of them and they worked back in the 50s, I believe. https://books.google.ca/books?id=D4XaV2YB7U4C&pg=PA108&lpg=PA108&dq=mafia+in+guelph+peter+edwards&source=bl&ots=nt6-qoTqgs&sig=ACfU3U0uTYpf4xdBeOirIYTsEe_wRuFQSQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwio_ILhtcXqAhWFKM0KHXJACRMQ6AEwBnoECAkQAQ#v=onepage&q=mafia%20in%20guelph%20peter%20edwards&f=false


 * I have seen no news items at all about the mob in Guelph in decades. The articles are usually about Hamilton and Woodbridge.


 * e.g. Police are probing possible connections between a string of violent incidents that include an explosion at a Woodbridge cafe. https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2017/06/29/man-arrested-after-explosion-rocks-woodbridge-caf.html By Peter Edwards June 29, 2017

Peter K Burian (talk) 14:33, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Hopefully there will be a decent investigation into Pat's activities and an in-depth follow up by Edwards and the like so we can give more context to the article. <b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★ 14:36, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Yeah but what did Police discover after investigating Angelo's death? Nothing, according to Edwards. Peter K Burian (talk) 14:38, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah, that's true - all they did was link the murders of that woman - but nothing really came of it... It makes me wonder who was behind the murders - the score is finally settled since the Papalia murder - but as the Papalia name basically died with Johnny and Frank, perhaps there are still some Papalia loyalists out there but I can't see who their leader is... <b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★ 14:44, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Pretty clear it was the Luppinos and Buffalo behind it after reading and the part that is already in the article about the wiretaps of Dom. <b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★ 03:21, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Additional insights, Hamilton Spectator
@<b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>:

Not everyone is able to access the Spec online, but I can. By Nicole O’Reilly Spectator Reporter Sebastian Bron Spectator Reporter July 10, 2020 https://www.thespec.com/news/crime/2020/07/10/shooting-in-burlington-neighbourhood-leaves-one-dead-and-one-injured.html?li_source=LI&li_medium=spec_web_ymbii

Some interesting insights:

Angelo Musitano’s murder was the beginning of a resurgence of mafia violence in Hamilton that has included several other murders and acts of violence, including the shooting deaths of Albert Iavarone and Cece Luppino.

In March, realtor Giorgio Barresi, who in the past was tied to the Musitanos, was fatally shot outside his Stoney Creek home.

''The Musitanos are one of three traditional mafia families that stretch back generations in Hamilton along with the Luppinos and Papalias. However, with Pat Musitano’s death, it’s unclear what will happen with the once prominent Mob family.

“The once powerful Musitano crime family had been reduced to Pat and very few others.”

''But while alive, Pat was still a threat, said Metelsky. Now it appears the Musitano crime family has been “completely decimated.”

But with so many Hamilton mobsters either dead or behind bars, the future is more uncertain. Peter K Burian (talk) 14:50, 11 July 2020 (UTC)
 * While the "completely decimated" quote is almost certainly true, it may be too soon to add this right now. <b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★ 14:52, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Others injured on July 10
The Spectator has learned the second victim is Musitano’s longtime bodyguard, John Clary.

A third man is in hospital with undetermined injuries. https://www.thespec.com/news/crime/2020/07/10/shooting-in-burlington-neighbourhood-leaves-one-dead-and-one-injured.html Peter K Burian (talk) 17:14, 11 July 2020 (UTC)

Recent enemies due to gravel business
From a new Peter Edwards article: ‘I think that’s the end of it.’ Retaliation unlikely in shooting death of Hamilton mobster Pat Musitano, ex-cop says NO PAYWALL AT https://www.fr24news.com/a/2020/07/i-think-its-the-end-unlikely-retaliation-for-hamilton-gangster-pat-musitano-gunshot-death-former-police-officer.html

Pat Musitano made plenty of enemies recently through a scam that involved drawing investors into a gravel company, Manning said.

One Toronto investor was able to get some $400,000 back, after threatening Musitano, but plenty of others were angry and frustrated, Manning said.

And an interesting bit but probably not relevant: In the final days before a hitman shot him dead Friday afternoon, Musitano found comfort in the frequent company of a senior citizen who was once his father’s bodyguard, sources say.  Musitano’s elderly companion is described in a 2002 RCMP intelligence report as a “liaison” between the Buffalo mob and the Musitanos. The report says Musitano’s elderly friend had previously been close to Niagara Falls, Ont. mobster Carmen Barilliaro, but something went wrong and there was a split in 1988. Peter K Burian (talk) 11:51, 12 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Interesting - added bit about gravel. <b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★ 14:12, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

Yeah ... is it possible that the motive, and the shooter, are unrelated to the "usual suspects"? Peter K Burian (talk) 14:47, 12 July 2020 (UTC)

End of the traditional mob in the GTA, Hamilton and Montreal?
@<b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★

With the death of Musitano, who is left in Hamilton? Nobody that the experts have ever mentioned.

Hamilton police say they believe Angelo Musitano’s death was part of an ongoing feud between organized crime groups in the Toronto area. https://globalnews.ca/news/7173414/mafia-experts-shooting-of-hamiltons-musitano-not-suprising/ BUT is the toronto area group Mafia, or Wolfpack or ??

Same article: ''Nicaso says the deaths of Pat and Angelo might represent the end of an era for a style of organized crime that to some degree appreciated attention from the media and police. “They were an unusual type of mobsters. They love the movies. All the good movies about the Mafia. They sometimes acted like a mobster character of a movie,” Nicaso said. The author believes future versions of mobsters will likely “wise up and keep quiet” going forward. “The people that will take their place are people with more knowledge about cybercrime, people capable to keep a low profile,” Nicaso said.'' Peter K Burian (talk) 13:05, 14 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Southern Ontario: A Star investigation found some of [Cosimo Ernesto Commisso's] Canadian relatives had clashed with The Wolfpack Alliance. “I wouldn’t be surprised if more incidents like (the Caputo killing) don’t happen in Canada,” said Najera, ... “The new generation is changing everything.” ... “This new generation is growing up without fear” as rigid old criminal structures are being replaced by looser, wider ranging associations like the Wolfpack Alliance, which includes Mafiosi, a Hells Angel and criminals in their 20s and 30s from a wide range of ethnic groups, Najera said. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2019/08/22/how-millennial-mobsters-are-changing-the-face-of-organized-crime.html


 * This source is not quite as reliable, but also quotes Edwards: Young Tech-Savy Turks Take On Ndrangheta in South Ontario ... Edwards attributes some of the violence to "an ongoing culture clash between the old and the new." The new include "aggressive young computer-friendly newcomers from B.C. and Quebec allied to a gang called The Wolfpack Alliance," he wrote, while the other side comprises the old guard — the GTA arm of the traditional ’Ndrangheta family of Cosimo (The Quail) Commisso of Siderno, Italy.


 * The Wolfpack Alliance was formed in British Columbia about a decade ago. Membership reputedly includes groups from various other criminal organizations, including the Hells Angels, the Red Scorpions, and the Independent Soldiers, which were in a street war in British Columbia with the Duhres, the Dhaks and some United Nations members. "It’s a rapidly evolving group of organized crime disrupters. Their members don’t have blood or ethnic ties or a code of conduct or a rigid hierarchy. They’re generally young and tech savvy. They have gold pendants with a wolf’s head gold medallion to show membership," Edwards wrote. https://www.cosanostranews.com/2017/07/young-tech-savy-turks-are-fighting.html?m=1 Peter K Burian (talk) 16:08, 14 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Who is left in Vaughan? July 18, 2019: According to police, the organized ‘crime family’ based in southern Ontario that includes the nine individuals arrested, plus one more person still wanted by police, has ties to a Mafia group from the southern Italian province of Calabria. Police said at least 12 arrests were made in Calabria as a result of a related investigation. https://globalnews.ca/news/5655827/police-allege-crime-family-busted-in-mob-raid-laundered-more-than-70m-through-ontario-casinos/


 * Following dirty money leads police to alleged Mafia clan north of Toronto living life of luxury ... The numbers behind Project Sindacato do a lot of talking: 15 arrests; 27 seized homes worth $24M; 23 high-end cars seized, worth $3.5M; about $1M in cash seized(National Post) at https://o.canada.com/news/following-dirty-money-leads-police-to-alleged-mafia-clan-north-of-toronto-living-life-of-luxury/wcm/1ff6cda3-3edf-4e83-ac2d-83cfc68a9004


 * Update, Aug. 9, 2019, Project Sindicato, described by Italian authorities as “Canadian ’Ndrangheta Connection 2.” Among the GTA residents who were charged on Friday morning on organized crime association charges are:....


 * Police at the time said they considered York Region resident ..., 56, as the head of an international ’Ndrangheta group with a base in York Region.


 * “We have dismantled the financial structure of this organized crime operation, both here and in Italy,” York Regional Police Chief Eric Jolliffe told a news conference https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2019/08/09/several-gta-residents-arrested-in-italy-following-mafia-sweep.html


 * Update, Oct. 18, 2019: BUT is that the end of the traditional mob in Vaughan... apparently not: As for Sindicato, Nicaso said although it was a significant step for York Regional Police, he said it didn't dismantle the entire ... crime family, who remain major players in illegal gaming. https://www.yorkregion.com/news-story/9622939-vaughan-gambling-kingpin-survives-assassination-attempt-thanks-to-bulletproof-car/

Peter K Burian (talk) 13:16, 14 July 2020 (UTC)


 * What about Montreal: Not many traditional Mafia left in Montreal (most are in custody): Quebec provincial police make arrests in 4 Mafia killings "Operation Préméditer, ... the killings occurred against a backdrop of "the old conflict that persists between Sicilians and Calabrians involved in traditional Italian organized crime." ..


 * "The murder of Salvatore Scoppa earlier this year is basically payback from the Sicilians, as revenge for these murders that were committed in 2016," Lapointe told CBC after the news conference at the SQ headquarters. Lapointe explained that the "Sicilians" are part of the Rizzuto clan.


 * Lapointe said police hope these latest arrests — and future pending arrests — signal that investigators will continue to put pressure on the clans' criminal activities. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/4-arrested-in-mafia-deaths-1.5322714

Peter K Burian (talk) 13:13, 14 July 2020 (UTC)

Montreal: Italian names but... "The Hells Angels have control in Quebec but also in Montreal. What we realize is that all the other strains of organized crime are accountable to the Hells Angels," says Chief Inspector Guy Lapointe ........ ''He no longer officially wears Hells Angels colors, but ... is considered the most influential actor of organized crime in Montreal according to the SQ.'' https://www.gangsterismout.com/2019/09/la-presse-montreal-mafia-flourishing-in.html Peter K Burian (talk) 16:08, 14 July 2020 (UTC)


 * Could be a good opportunity to ask Peter Edwards - he's doing a live session tomorrow. https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2020/07/14/hes-covered-organized-crime-for-more-than-three-decades-on-thursday-peter-edwards-will-answer-your-questions.html Seems that you have to post the question in the comments section on that link which never stays long enough for me to type before it goes to paywall. I think some of these questions you have here would be interesting to ask him, although obviously his responses can't be used as reliable sources. <b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★ 14:04, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

OK, I signed up for it and have posted a question for Edwards. It will be tomorrow. See https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2020/07/14/hes-covered-organized-crime-for-more-than-three-decades-on-thursday-peter-edwards-will-answer-your-questions.html Peter K Burian (talk) 18:34, 15 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I was able to see the responses on my phone without it kicking me out - some interesting responses to the questions. <b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★ 14:03, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

@<b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★
 * re: Peter Edwards: here is a transcript:    https://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2020/07/14/hes-covered-organized-crime-for-more-than-three-decades-on-thursday-peter-edwards-will-answer-your-questions.html I don't know if its behind a paywall... I am a subscriber.

He did answer my question:

Q: With so many of the traditional mob dead or in custody, is this the end for them in southern Ontario? And perhaps in Montreal. With the Wolf Pack Alliance and Hell”s Angel’s filling the vacuum? Thanks.

A: There’s a changing of the guard underway. It’s also a time for some of the old guard who are doing well to reach out into places like Hamilton.

Good point about the Wolfpack Alliance. The Wolfpack are largely millennial mobsters, who don’t have a strict hierarchy and who connect much of the time through the internet. They don’t like being bossed around and are impatient. They’re extremely mobile. They take in people from other groups, including at least one Hells Angel from B.C. It’s a hard model to sustain but they are big earners and they are dangerous.

Groups like Wolfpack rise very quickly but don’t last long. B.C. has a lot of that activity and now there’s a lot of interaction between GTA and Vancouver area.


 * Some other interesting info:


 * Q: Is there a dominant crime group in Ontario? Or is it evenly split amongst crime groups?


 * A: Good question. ‘Ndrangheta in York Region certainly up there but they don’t control other groups. A lot of them stay in their own lanes. Tow trucks interesting because several groups fighting there for same business.


 * Hamilton is changing fast. There’s a vacuum at the moment and it will be filled quickly.

Peter K Burian (talk) 14:07, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

National Post, useful article about the entire family history
Murdered mob boss Pat Musitano symbolized Ontario's Mafia with his gangster chic — and the mayhem that shadowed him https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/murdered-mob-boss-pat-musitano-symbolized-ontarios-mafia-with-his-gangster-chic-and-the-mayhem-that-shadowed-him author=Adrian Humphries|date=July 13, 2020 Peter K Burian (talk) 14:43, 16 July 2020 (UTC)

Just fyi: Home of Musitano family member has cars torched, garage painted with the word 'rat
The mob is not finished in Hamilton

Giuseppe 'Pino' Avignone's lawyer says his client is not a 'rat'

Jul 17, 2020 The garage of a member of Pat Musitano's family had the word "rat" painted onto it while two cars sitting in the driveway were torched. It happened exactly a week after Musitano, the notorious Hamilton mobster, was shot to death.

As first reported by the Hamilton Spectator and confirmed by the CBC, 59-year-old Giuseppe "Pino" Avignone, a relative of Pat Musitano owns the home and was with Musitano when he was killed. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/hamilton-police-fire-garage-rat-1.5653226 Peter K Burian (talk) 13:58, 21 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Yup, added that the other day. <b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★ 14:03, 21 July 2020 (UTC)


 * The Canadian Press reported that Avignone served five years in prison for his role in the gangland killing of Racco.


 * Antonio Nicaso said he can't say for sure why Avignone would be targeted, but said mob members can be "great communicators when they have to send a message." "Allegiance and loyalty are key to organized crime," he told CBC News. "To understand the Mafia process ... you have to read between the lines."

Peter K Burian (talk) 14:15, 21 July 2020 (UTC)

Business partner of Pat Musitano found dead in London
@<b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★

Business partner of slain mobster Pat Musitano found dead in London A homicide victim whose body was found in a wooded area in London, Ont. has been identified as a business partner of slain Hamilton mob boss Pat Musitano. Grant Edward Norton, 59, of Oxford County, is believed to have been killed in London [date of death not known] ... London Police Service members became involved in the investigation during the week of July 13, 2020,

Norton and Musitano were partners in a hauling company that was accused of illegally dumping gravel in the Niagara Region. The company was also in the midst of a bitter dispute with truckers over alleged nonpayment of wages. https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2020/07/22/partner-of-slain-mobster-pat-musitano-found-dead-in-london.html?source=newsletter&utm_content=a09&utm_source=ts_nl&utm_medium=email&utm_email=D3C472AF93F8A8BCEE95284AEEFA77AA&utm_campaign=tmh_27820 Peter K Burian (talk) 15:11, 23 July 2020 (UTC)
 * I added some info about it sourcing a CTV London source that I could read, but if there is more detailed info at the Toronto Star source, you can add it. <b style="color:black">Vaseline</b><b style="color:lightgrey">eeeeeee</b>★★★ 15:42, 23 July 2020 (UTC)