Talk:Mussulmen

I agree, and am struck by the use of the term musselmann, muselman, or mussalman for the dehumanied jewish inmates. such as used by wiesel or agamben. The word is not archaic.

It is in current use in arabic, persian, urdu, etc, and has been from where it goes into the german... When muslims refer to themselves they use muslim or musalman or plurals - muslimeen or musalmanaan, derived from salaam, shalom...

I remain curious about the etymology.

--Ibn-arabi 07:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Huh? "Mussulman" (or the German word "Muselmann") is an archaic word for muslim or moslem... this article needs verification! Why would jewish concentration camp inmates refer to some of their fellows as "mussulmen"?? Also check Learned helplessness. Lupo 10:28, 31 Jan 2005 (UTC)

It seems offhand as thought the etymology of the term, while clearly curious, is not really Wikipedia's (as opposed to Wiktionary's) problem except to the extent that it illuminates the topic itself. As long as the correctness of the term itself can be sourced, our work here is done (as they say).

__________________________________________________________________________ May I suggest the following entry for Muselmann. My source is Yad Vashem (www.yadvashem.org). It is an exact quote from their article in case copy right is breached.

1/1 Shoah Resource Center, The International School for Holocaust Studies Muselmann German term widely used among concentration camp inmates to refer to prisoners who were near death due to exhaustion, starvation, or hopelessness. The word Muselmann literally means "Muslim." Some scholars believe that the term originated from the similarity between the near-death prone state of a concentration camp Muselmann and the image of a Muslim prostrating himself on the ground in prayer. Many victims, totally lacking the wherewithal to adapt, reached this stage soon after arrival in a camp. Other prisoners succumbed to sickness, physical abuse, hunger, and overwork. One could identify Muselmanner by their physical and psychological decline; they were lethargic, indifferent to their surroundings, and could not stand up for more than a short period of time. Most other prisoners avoided contact with Muselmanner, in fear of contracting the condition themselves. The Nazis running the camps considered the Muselmanner undesirable, because they could not work or endure camp rule. Thus, during selections, these victims were the first to be sentenced to death. A person at the Muselmann stage had no chance for survival; he or she would not live for more than a few days or weeks.