Talk:Mustafa Kemal Atatürk/Archive 17

Semi-protected edit request on 26 July 2023
Please remove the following statement. "The rise of Turkish nationalism saw the Ottoman Empire perpetrate genocides against its Greek, Armenian and Assyrian subjects; while not directly involved, Atatürk's role in their aftermath been controversial."

This is a contentious and inaccurate statement, added without consensus from the community despite being removed multiple times.

The Ottoman state was in its dissolution process in 1910-1920, and Greek, Armenian, Assyrian nationalist rebels tried to create their independent states. The government implemented counterinsurgency measures against its subjects, which were not limited to Christians but also included Muslims such as Arabs. The Ottoman forces carried out forced migration of the population in regions where the revolts took place. The Western scholarly community views those events as a civil war between different ethnic groups where mutual killings occurred. There is no consensus that those events tantamount to genocide in the absence of an intention to annihilate those peoples.

❌ This is revisionism, there is a large consensus about this. ---Wikaviani  (talk) (contribs)  20:39, 26 July 2023 (UTC)


 * @Wikaviani You should differentiate between revisionism and negationism. The scholarly studies of Turkish history since 1970s showed that the traditional Western narrative of oppressed Christian minorities and tyrant Turks are false. It was a fabrication created by the Allies of WW1 as a war-time propaganda to rally public support in their countries for the war. Those claims were rebutted thanks to the research conducted with the authentic documents in the Ottoman archives in Turkey. It was also debunked in the reports of General Harbord, who had visited Anatolia and documented atrocities committed by the Armenians in first hand. Historians now view it as a one-dimensional obsolete historical theory that has no place in serious academic research.
 * General Harbord's report on Armenia, Conditions in the Middle East: The Report of Military Mission to Armenia, p. 35,"We know, however, so much to be a fact that the Armenians in the new State are carrying on operations in view of exterminating the Mussulmen element in obedience to orders from the Armenian corps commander. We have had copies of their orders under our eyes. That the Armenians of Erivan are following a policy of extermination against the Mussulmen and this wave of sanguinary savagery has spread right up to our frontier is also established by the fact of the presence within our borders of numerous Mussulmen fleeing from death on the other side. The government of Erivan has, on the other hand, resorted to direct acts of provocation such as the practice of gunfire this side of the border."
 * The report dated 1916 on the massacre committed in Bitlis and Van by the Russian and Armenian forces, taken from Documents on the Massacres Perpetrated by Armenians, p. 41"During the occupation of Van and Bitlis terrible cruelties were commited by Russian and Armenian brigands against the muslim population; cossack cavalry arriving in Bitlis, massacred muslim families and children fleeing the Armenians; hearing that the Russians were coming to Van, Armenians uprose and pursued the fleeing muslim population trying to escape and tragically killed them, massacred thousands of women, young girls and men among those who didn't emigrate; all the population of the villages of Zive, Mollakâsım, Şeyhkara, Şeyhayne, Ayans, Paksi, Zorâbâd and many other villages, who stayed unable to emigrate were all exterminated and not a single person escaped the carnage; on the eve of the  arrival  of  the  Russians  to  Dir, a town attached to  Hakkari, Armenians made irruptions on the roads and massacred all the male Kurdish population of the villages situated on these roads and cut up into chunks with daggers and swords more than thousand small children the oldest less than three years and used the cut and broken bodies as trenches and ravished more than four hundred Kurdish girls, the old women being killed." 213.14.255.20 (talk) 20:54, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * None of your above cites can challenge the mass of high quality sources that support the genocides in the Ottoman Empire, especially against Armenians. I decline your request. We're done. ---Wikaviani  (talk) (contribs)  21:08, 26 July 2023 (UTC)
 * how can you say couldn't challenge? there were the reasons why the armenians were deported. -zerenk (talk) 14:15, 24 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I did not find any "high quality sources" talking about Ataturk's role in genocides. Maybe you could add a few sources to the page? 88.245.205.19 (talk) 09:15, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

Include hyperlink for İsmet İnönü
Someone needs to add a hyperlink for İsmet İnönü's page under Ataturk's infobox ("Succeeded by _____") as second president of Turkey. GVPTdks (talk) 21:16, 5 March 2024 (UTC)