Talk:Muzinë

Source
The PhD in Greek says in p.94 that "The Albanian authorities recognize officially as Greek the following villages(source):" The source is: "According to the Greek consulate in Gjirokastër". This was transferred to wikipedia as: "Muzinë is among the villages in which members of the ethnic Greek minority reside". It should be removed. --Maleschreiber (talk) 22:38, 18 February 2021 (UTC)


 * Information supported by wp:SECONDARY which cites an official authority and relevant authority on the subject. There is nothing to warrant removal.Alexikoua (talk) 10:00, 19 February 2021 (UTC)
 * It says that Muzinë is in an area which rights of ethnic Greeks are constitutionally protected. You're inferring too much that isn't discussed in bibliography about the region. I looked for other sources to find anything about Greek presence in Muzinë/Pecë, but bibliography discusses as it as one of the two villages of Finiq which are inhabited only by Albanians.--Maleschreiber (talk) 19:32, 21 February 2021 (UTC)


 * I've added a whole bunch of content. The village is one that was Albanian speaking and Orthodox till the late 20th century. By the 2010s, there has been a change among Muzine villagers. This is to be expected among the Orthodox people of the south of various linguistic backgrounds, due to migration to Greece, etc, etc. All sources added are RS.Resnjari (talk) 04:45, 7 February 2022 (UTC)


 * Came across this video news report in Albanian from Ora News, who were in Muzine in 2021. The village has massively depopulated, with only a few households left being mainly elderly people in the village. The village school is closed as there are almost no children for anyone to attend. Old stone houses are in disrepair. Reasons given by villagers for Muzine's decline is migration etc.  As i can't be bothered looking online at the moment, if anyone comes across news articles saying this about Muzine, it would be good for additions so as to update what's happening with the village. Best.Resnjari (talk) 05:07, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Its ok, i found the article about depopulation from Ora News. Added content based on that. Best.Resnjari (talk) 09:04, 7 February 2022 (UTC)
 * First of all, the source of Ioannis Kouzas used by @Alexikoua is WP:POV, and secondly, it says that "according to the data of the Greek Consulate, Muzina is a village that is considered a Greek village", as cited by @Maleschreiber above. If such citations are accepted as RS and will be placed in this article, then through similar sources of the Albanian consulates we can write that Ioannina was also a city with a significant number of Albanian population, but it does not work that way on Wikipedia. Then to say that a village was Albanian and now strangely within a few years it became Greek, while all sources show a depopulation of the village itself, requires a minimum of WP:Extraordinary. We have the field study of Leonidas Kallivretakis that we have all accepted here as RS and that turns out to match in other areas even with newer sources or even censuses, so at least when we do not have better and much RS than him, I would suggest to stick to those lines described there. So you need to fix that ambiguous sentence and stick to the new source that refers to bilingualism and not to ethnicity.  Bes-ART Talk  08:47, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * , i have added RS sources which show this village has been Albanian speaking or Orthodox Albanian for a very long time. However for context parts of the Albanian speaking Orthodox population and a large majority of the Vlach speaking Orthodox population of Albania is undergoing an identity transition to Greek. There are many factors involved. The Orthodox Church in the country which is Albanian only in geographic terms is headed by a Greek from Greece and half of its bishops are Greeks from Greece. As such villages like Muzine in sensitive areas have been receiving Greek liturgy since the 1990s and things like Albanian identity or language became increasingly unsustainable, especially as the wider area has Greek speakers. Also migration to Greece and the Albanophobia there has led as with Orthodox Albanian speakers native to Greece toward an acceleration of the assimilation process. In Albania this has also entailed migration and access to Greece via citizenship etc has involved identification with "Northern Epirote" and hence Greek identity. There are difficult realities to acknowledge for Albanians or people who identify as such, but credible scholarship bears it out over and over again. Muzine is one such case.Resnjari (talk) 08:49, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Articles have to be internally consistent. In many ways this means that the content shouldn't create irrational narratives. The same families which lived in 1980, live in 2022 in Muzina. Their identities can't be shifted around per decade/source. I have highlighted a similar problem at Talk:Qeparo.--Maleschreiber (talk) 03:13, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * , i have to disagree with you here on Qeparo. Its a village of two separate and distant halves, on a map it almost appears like two distinct villages. The Orthodox Albanian one is near the coast, the Greek speaking one is further inland on semi mountainous terrain. The Greek speaking part is older and the earlier core of Qeparo. The source that lists all the neighbourhoods of both halves is by Ulqini and he gives names in Albanian as per what they are known in the Orthodox Albanian part of the village for all Qeparo. Sources in the article don't clash, but for me the Qeparo article does have some awkward sentence composition that needs to be written better.Resnjari (talk) 08:49, 12 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I wonder why Kouzas can be considered POV. It falls into wp:ACADEMIC and SECONDARY and its more recent than Kallivretakis. Not to mention that Kallivretakis concludes that more up to date research is needed on the field and Kouzas among the best we can have (and for certain he isn't a ...newspaper). We have both official and academic data that supports this fact about Muzine.Alexikoua (talk) 19:38, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
 * By the way Kouzas is among the top academics and researchers on the field with several published works. @Bes-ART: we need to be careful since your comment falls directly into wp:BLP.Alexikoua (talk) 19:47, 9 February 2022 (UTC)