Talk:My Delirium

Good article?
I stumbled across this one, and had a quick look over it; at first glance it appeared OK-ish. I then spent a few hours adding the sound clip. Now, I've had a closer look, and I have grave concerns over the referencing.


 * LADYHAWKE On Myspace
 * No way, not a reliable source


 * thesixtyone - a music adventure
 * Looks like a primary source - like a blog anyone can edit?


 * Ladyhawke - ClashMusic.com Q&A, Clashmusic.com
 * I don't see how this asserts that ""My Delirium" was written by Ladyhawke, alongside Hannah Robinson and Pascal Gabriel, both of whom Ladyhawke worked with on her previous singles". I see no mention of "Hannah Robinson", and all it says about Pascal Gabriel is that he is from Belgium


 * Ladyhawke ¦ media ¦ triple j
 * This just has one short para, and it looks like a 'myspace'-type site. Has the link changed? It certainly doesn't assert the facts stated (at present)


 * Atnikov, Nathan (1 May, 2008). "Ladyhawke Review". ARTISTdirect, Inc..
 * Well, for a start, this is a tertiary source; you should not cite this, but instead you should find where the info comes from. Secondly, it is a site selling the record, therefore hardly an independent reliable source. Thirdly, re, "Some reviewers have related certain lyrics to Ladyhawke's experience with Asperger syndrome" - some? how many? where is there any other mention of this?

This seems to redirect to Ladyhawkes own website, so I can only surmise that it is a primary source; it certainly doesn't confirm the quotation given
 * Brown, Pip ModularPeople Ladyhawke
 * Diu, Nisha Lilia (27 February, 2009). "Ladyhawke: flying high". The Daily Telegraph.
 * Finally, a reliable source. So this is where the facts should come from. It discusses aspie's too. It does, however, only have a single sentence about this single - so I'm starting to get worried about 'significant coverage' at this stage...


 * LADYHAWKE FOR CHRISTMAS NUMBER ONE
 * a) not RS, b) It says "This is clearly* a Christmas Number One" - and the * at the bottom says, "* Not remotely". This is terrible, gross misrepresentation of the facts.


 * "My Delirium". Popjustice Ltd..
 * I've no idea why the second link (to this blog) is here, either.


 * Balls, David "Ladyhawke: 'My Delirium'". Retrieved on 17 April 2009
 * Who is this Mr. Balls? Is he a reliable source? I wonder...from a quick google, he does appear to have written rather a lot about this band, on various forums

...and, at this point, I will stop; I don't expect you'll be very happy with my review thus far, and therefore further work on my part would be futile, I think. good luck with it; I'm truly sorry that I could not bring happier news, and if I can help in any way in the future, please let me know.  Chzz  ►  02:51, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * LADYHAWKE On Myspace
 * Given that it is the artists 'official' Myspace page, I was assuming it would be acceptable for sourcing an uncontroversial claim.
 * thesixtyone - a music adventure
 * I can't see any option to edit - maybe WP:RSN should hear about it.
 * Ladyhawke - ClashMusic.com Q&A, Clashmusic.com
 * I think I committed a secondary citation there, I'll look around to see what it was.
 * Ladyhawke ¦ media ¦ triple j
 * Did you see the audio clip? Triple J is a fairly noteworthy station, and hardly myspace.
 * Atnikov, Nathan (1 May, 2008). "Ladyhawke Review". ARTISTdirect, Inc..
 * Firstly, I'm aware that the second part is a copy, but as far as I can tell the first section is primary. Secondly, for a site that is meant to be 'selling' the single, I would hardly say that having the most negative review around is a good way of doing it. Could've been copied from print media, but I'd have to spend some time searching.
 * Brown, Pip ModularPeople Ladyhawke
 * This used to be an interview with her, I'll look around for it's current locale.
 * LADYHAWKE FOR CHRISTMAS NUMBER ONE
 * My bad, the other link to the blog must've thrown me off.
 * Balls, David "Ladyhawke: 'My Delirium'". Retrieved on 17 April 2009
 * Considering this Mr. Balls uses the title 'Music Reporter', I can only guess at that he reports on Ladyhawke along with several other bands/musicians. As for his reliability, I'd say that it would be the same as that of Digital Spy.
 * Thanks for the feedback. Could you leave me your replies so that I know what actions I need to do? \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 11:09, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * Pretty much as stated above; I just don't see significant coverage in reliable sources, and specifically per GA criteria, I don't think that it currently "provides in-line citations from reliable sources for direct quotations, statistics, published opinion, counter-intuitive or controversial statements".


 * Re. thesixtyone, note that their front page says "thesixtyone democratizes music culture; artists submit their work, but rather than allowing a stuffy suit to decide what's cool, the listeners do." - thus, I wouldn't consider it a reliable source.


 * Re. abc, yes, I did miss the audio clip - I didn't realize that that was being referenced; that might be OK then.


 * The other parts - as I said before; there are a large number of uncited facts. I only checked half the refs; the rest need checking out similarly, to see if they are valid.


 * From a quick look at them, I see a BBC Blog by 'Frazier McAlpine' - but I can't see anything much to prove that his blog is in any way an official BBC pronouncement; I think that it needs to be more clear that these are opinions - perhaps quoting them. For example it says "describing "My Delirium" as "a good pop song"" - and the source actually says "Still, a good pop song is a good pop song, no matter how grumpily delivered" - which isn't really the same thing, so there is danger here of interpretation of the quote (ie WP:RS).


 * Most of the remainder is stats, and that is probably largely OK - although I'd be concerned that not all the stats are sourced (again, per GA criteria) - for example, it says that "charted higher than both "Paris is Burning" and "Dusk Till Dawn" on the UK, Australian, and New Zealand charts" - but the ref (at the end of that section) is chartstats, which says that it reached the same position as "Paris is Burning" (no. 78) - but I'm not sure which countries stats this refers to anyway. It goes on to say that "The next week it rose 44 places to number 75 with two weeks until its physical release" - with that same ref - but the ref does not appear to give that information.


 * The 'covers' part says that "Ladytron revealed they had recorded a cover of the song" - and again, I don't think that the source really says that; in fact, it says "No release date has yet been given for the cover" - hence (without other sources) it seems like a tabloid rumour of something that might happen (WP:CRYSTAL). Looking at that further, I see that the proposed album "Light & Darkness" also mentions it, with a different source ref, this one - and that says;
 * Ladyhawke [...] said that Aguilera has yet to contact her about the song."I know nothing about it...
 * Thus it does sound very speculative.

 Chzz  ►  21:58, 6 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I've done some cleanup, still looking for a source to give the genre of the song given your objections. In regards to the stats, there must've been some confusion and the links got disassociated from the correct source. Chartstats.com is for UK charts, and I had avoided putting six citations on the end of the sentence. I can collate all the links and do so, however. \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 08:58, 10 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Actually, this page lists the highest positions for all her songs on the UK chart, which clearly shows "My Delirium" reaching top, I'll get the refs for Australia and NZ. \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 09:00, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * OK then. I just removed the youtube link, because I'm assuming that is a copyrighted video? Apart from that...well, I still have concerns over referencing. For example, there remain references to ladyhawkemusic.com. I also think that the "Christina Aguilera" thing should go, because it's so speculative - unless it could be backed up with a better source, of course. A passing mention of this possible record in digitalspy isn't enough to 'prove' that she'll do the song, in my opinion.  Chzz  ►  13:51, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * As for the YouTube link – I see no need to remove it, since the video seems to be published from Ladyhawke's official account and shouldn't be a copyright infringement. WP:EL states that linking to non-infinging content is acceptable. Quibik (talk) 14:13, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I agree with Quibik. I considered this during the WP:RGA, and left in the link because the material that was linked to most likely does not "violate its creator's copyright," since the Youtube clip is on the official YouTube channel of the artist.  -shirulashem (talk) 14:27, 10 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I had removed the Christina Aguilera thing before, it has been readded by another editor. The links to Ladyhawkemusic are, in my view, acceptable. It is being used to source things that Ladyhawke herself has written about the song. WP:PRIMARY in mind, if the writer of a song say they wrote it at home, then it's likely that they did. If the writer says something was their inspiration for the song, it probably was. \ Backslash Forwardslash / {talk} 21:52, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

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