Talk:Númenor/GA1

GA Review
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Reviewer: BennyOnTheLoose (talk · contribs) 11:37, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for taking this on. Chiswick Chap (talk) 12:59, 24 April 2020 (UTC)


 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose, spelling, and grammar): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (reference section): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):  d (copyvio and plagiarism):
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free content have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:

Comments round 1
Happy to discuss or be challenged on any of my comments.
 * Lead: Is there a source for the pronunciation as "/ˈnuːmɛnɔːr/"?
 * Removed, I suspect it's editorial, but also quite unnecessary.


 * Lead: Elenna-nórë is in the lead but not mentioned again. Might be worth adding to the article if there is more that can be said.


 * Lead: The redirect from fictional place to Lists of fictional locations isn't all that helpful. Fantasy world could perhaps be one option from the redirected page.
 * Removed.


 * Lead: Says that Númenor is in the "Sundering Seas" whereas infobox has "The Great Sea" with a link. Consider whether these should be made consistent.
 * Fixed.


 * Lead: "Commentators have noted, too, that it echoes" - "too" could probably be omitted here. Consider replacing "it" with what the "it" refers to - presumably something along the lines of "the devastation of Númenor."
 * Done.


 * Infobox: "Lifespan" doesn't seem like quite the right term. I suppose I'm thinking of something clunkier like "Fictional historical era" but I'm happy for "lifespan" to be retained.
 * Fixed.


 * Infobox: If the infobox refers to an island rather than an island civilisation, then I think Elros Tar-Minyatur should be omitted here as he did not found the island itself. Elros Tar-Minyatur is in the infobox, but appears in the article only as Elros. Consider adding the "Tar-Minyatur" to the first occurrence.
 * You're right. "Island kingdom" it is.

Physical Geography

 * Physical geography: "With clean air, King Tar-Meneldur built his tall tower here to watch the stars." I think minor rewording, unless the tall tower was built of clean air.
 * Fixed.


 * If there is anything in Tolkein that says anything else about Tar-Meneldur, I think it would be good to add that here for a bit of context.
 * Glossed.


 * "A tall tower was constructed there by Elros,"; "days of Tar-Aldarion"; Ar-Pharazôn In the same vein as the point above, add a little context if possible. (There is already more about Elros in the later section Land of Gift and about Ar-Pharazôn under Sauron)
 * Glossed all three of 'em.


 * "important in Númenórean policies" - should that be in "politics"? ("Policies" could be right.)
 * Clarified.


 * "As the Shadow fell over.." as this is the first reference, consider linking to the later part of the article or adding a brief note here.
 * Done. I'd not normally do this but I take your point.


 * I would normally just change this sort of thing, but best to check here - is "shipts" a typo?
 * Fixed.

Culture

 * Link Beleriand at the first mention. (It's linked later.)
 * Done.


 * Consider linking Edain to Man (Middle-earth)
 * Done.


 * Link Adûnaic at the first mention.
 * Done.


 * Consider linking Quenya
 * Done.


 * Consider briefly explaining what oiolairë was (or linking to List of fictional plants which has a description). The reference to "bough of" does already indicate that it was a type of plant.
 * Done.

Fictional History

 * Land of gifts: "wonderful plants" - do we know what was wonderful about them?
 * Rm adjective.

Comments Part 2

 * Sea kings "forbidden to sail west out of sight" - if this is a direct quote, probably deserves a page reference.
 * Reworded.


 * "tantalizingly not far west" - you'll know better than I do whether "tantalizingly" fits here; I'd suggest a minor reword to something like "tantalizingly close to the west of" as I think it reads better without a "not" there. This is another one I'm happy to let stay as it is if you prefer the current wording.
 * Done.


 * Atlantis: as I don't have access to the Hale source, I'm assuming good faith with respect to it supporting all of the first paragraph.
 * Noted. There is a direct quote in the Hale citation.


 * Atlantis: "the only drowned island in earlier literature" - I'm had a go at looking at a machine-translated version of the Delattre source, and didn't find this part (" the only") there. I think it is better to caveat this with something like "in surviving" literature too, as lots of early literature is lost. Also, if "earlier" can be qualified - I think it basically means ancient here, rather than just "before Tolkien".
 * Done.


 * Fall: I've assumed good faith with respect to the summary of Shippey (2005).
 * Noted.


 * Fall: "Tolkien, a devout Roman Catholic," will need a separate citation if not verified in Letters #131.
 * Added.

Thanks for the speedy responses earlier. I've not done the image and copyvio checks yet, but certainly not found any big issues so far. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 16:44, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * Many thanks. Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:50, 24 April 2020 (UTC)
 * thanks for all your work on the article for and your responses to my comments. I'm happy to pass the article for GA. BennyOnTheLoose (talk) 15:15, 25 April 2020 (UTC)