Talk:N. P. Williams

Requested move 15 October 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Moved uncontroversially. (non-admin closure) &mdash; Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 12:54, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

Norman Powell Williams → N. P. Williams – Per MOS:COMMONNAME. 142.160.89.97 (talk) 22:30, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * This is a contested technical request (permalink). &mdash; Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 22:49, 15 October 2018 (UTC)


 * Comment – The vast majority of scholarly sources appear to refer to the subject as N. P. Williams (with the exception of those encyclopedias that always use full names, of course). And as far as I can see, N. P. Williams was the only name under which the subject published during his lifetime. This primary usage is also reflected in all of the English-language bibliographic databases I've seen (e.g., WorldCat Identities lccn-nr96004006,, ).
 * On what basis is the request being contested? 142.160.89.97 (talk) 23:06, 15 October 2018 (UTC)


 * The three main sources all use his full name.
 * WILLIAMS, Norman Powell (1883 - 1943), Lady Margaret Professor of Divinity in the University of Oxford, and Canon of Christ Church since 1927; Treasurer of Christ Church Cathedral, Oxford, since 1936; Subdean, 1939; Proctor in Convocation of Canterbury for the University of Oxford, 1936, theologians, theologians. (2011). Who Was Who, Who Was Who.
 * Cross, F., & Livingstone, E. (2005). Williams, Norman Powell (1883–1943). The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church.
 * Kemp, E. (2004). Williams, Norman Powell. Oxford Dictionary of National Biography, Oxford Dictionary of National Biography.
 * As do the National Archives (UK).
 * &mdash; Frayæ (Talk/Spjall) 23:20, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
 * I'm well aware that those three sources (,, and ) use Williams' full name, – as you can see, I was the one who added all of them!


 * As I pointed out in my first sentence, I was excluding those encyclopedias that almost always use full names for subjects. Their using Williams' full name is not an indication that it is his common name as they make a point of not necessarily using subjects' common names where they differ from their full names. While the use of other encyclopedias in determining common usage can be helpful, I trust that we would agree that it is not helpful where their house style directly contradicts ours on the matter at hand (a fact which serves as the basis of WP:SSF).


 * The fact that it is a matter of house style in the case of the encyclopedias is best evidenced by given that the bishop who wrote it also served as the sole editor of, a compilation of Wiliams' writings along with a memoir, which uses the name N. P. Williams. There is no reason why he would switch to using the full name if not for the purpose of conforming to the house style. Also, why did you exclude  from what you presented as a comprehensive list of the "main sources" for the article but include  when they're listed alongside one another in the further reading section, ?


 * Regarding the link to The National Archives database you provided, that which applied to the encyclopedias applies equally here. The database appears to even use full names for Clive Staples Lewis (C. S. Lewis) and John Ronald Reuel Tolkien (J. R. R. Tolkien), two individuals who are almost never referred to as such in practice. Once again, this is a source that appears to have a house style that precludes usage of common names where they differ from full names.


 * All that being said, if you are looking for other sources using the name N. P. Williams (in addition to what looks like everything Williams has written), though, I would point you to: ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; and, for examples. 142.160.89.97 (talk) 02:32, 16 October 2018 (UTC)

 




 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.