Talk:NBCSN/Archive 1

Move
Alright, I've moved the page from OLN to Versus (TV channel).. but how many OLN's are supposed to change to Versus? All of them? AWBricker 02:58, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Shouldn't the title of the article just be Versus, and have a link to the disambiguation page maybe? The two things at the top of that page are not even titled versus for their articles. Bmitchelf 04:13, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe (but not certain), once a name has 3+ possible destinations, it has to go to disambiguation, and then they have to be classified as following.. I dont know if that makes sense or not.. I'm hardly a wiki expert. AWBricker 04:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

Need more historical background for OLN
Versus is new and swept OLN off the article, but I feel we need more info in the article about the Outdoor Life Network that was replaced. I would not be qualified to add the info, but someone should.

-- Guroadrunner 11:54, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

no move Patstuarttalk 11:53, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
Versus (TV channel) → Versus

Alright, I've moved the page from OLN to Versus (TV channel).. but how many OLN's are supposed to change to Versus? All of them? ABricker 02:58, 25 September 2006 (UTC) Shouldn't the title of the article just be Versus, and have a link to the disambiguation page maybe? The two things at the top of that page are not even titled versus for their articles. Bmitchelf 04:13, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe (but not certain), once a name has 3+ possible destinations, it has to go to disambiguation, and then they have to be classified as following.. I dont know if that makes sense or not.. I'm hardly a wiki expert. AWBricker 04:46, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose Versus is the legal term or what people think of in the abbreviation of 'vs.' in general. At worst, Versus should be a disambiguation page.  No company should be able to 'take over' a common term just by changing their name, else Apple would be Apple Computer.  There's too many possibilities and this is not the default one that will come to mind for the majority of people editing or reading. Kevin_b_er 19:30, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment As the "mover" of this page, I thought it should be known I moved the page to Versus (TV channel) keep the format with other TV channels with common names, such as TLC (TV channel). ABricker 01:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Move If the logic of Kevin_b_er follows, than the page for Vs. should redirect to the Versus disambiguation page. However, it leads to the Pearl Jam album that is called Vs.  MTV is listed as MTV, not MTV (TV Channel).  As for TLC, it has different meanings, most notable Tender Loving Care.  The TLC channel is abbreviated for The Learning Channel, so its a case on its own.  Unless Vs. becomes a disambiguation page (there already is a Vs. disambig page at VS., I believe the Versus article should be about the TV network, with a link to a dismbiguation page. Milchama 11:25, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Oppose. "Versus" can mean many things, significantly more important than the TV channel. For example, see Hero (channel). -- Howard  the   Duck  17:23, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

OLN (Canada) is not a sister channel to Versus
Sister channels don't cross Canadian borders. MTV2, MTV Tr3s and VH1 are sister networks to MTV. Style Network is a sister network to E!. I believe that it should be mentioned that the Canadian OLN didn't rebrand to Versus, but it shouldn't have billing in the info box as a sister channel. Milchama 11:07, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Outdoor Life Network original logo.png
Image:Outdoor Life Network original logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 13:01, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

POV Problems.

the whole section about the cycling coverage is majorly POV. it needs to be fixed.

I changed the page so that anything negative about OLN's cycling coverage was rephrased as being an opinion held by serious American cycling fans. I'd slide in a paragraph about people who love their coverage, but I can't in good conscience do that, as I do not know of anyone who does.

The whole article is POV. Especially disturbing is the line:

Dish Network will never restore OLN at any time in the future.

Meanwhile, DirecTV is the exclusive satellite home for OLN (at channel 608), and will be that way for many years to come.

Sounds like a DTV user, if not an employee.

According to published reports, the channel will be on Dish on April 22, 2006.Rkw1111 03:20, 21 April 2006 (UTC)rkw1111

Why isn't there a "content" bar on the site? It only shows up when you edit it...

On September 25, 2006, it will change its name to Versus.

Fair use rationale for Image:VS-HD-Logo.jpg
Image:VS-HD-Logo.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 16:36, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Universal Sports (DirecTV dispute) section vital to story.
Someone removed the section about Universal Sports, but it is vital to the story, given that while Universal Sports was on DirecTV on Channel 604 (September 2009), it aired the Vuelta a Espana bicycle race, which Versus also carried that same month. The removal of that section was uncalled for, given how it affected the story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.118.82.199 (talk) 19:41, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't see how it was vital. Universal Sports and Versus are owned by 2 separate companies. TomCat4680 (talk) 20:00, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

FCC closes loophole which allowed cable companies to keep some programming off Satellite TV.
In reference to the Versus DirecTV Story, it is important to note that on Jan 21/22, the FCC voted to close a loophole that may have been in part the reasoning regarding Versus being pulled from DirecTV, as noted earlier.

Here's the story.

http://losangeles.bizjournals.com/losangeles/stories/2010/01/18/daily21.html?ed=2010-01-21&ana=e_du_pap —Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.118.82.199 (talk) 19:44, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

No the FCC closing the terrestrial loophole was about cable owned regional sports networks (i.e. Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia, 4SD, Cox Sports Television, Time Warner Cable Sports, Comcast/Charter Sports Southeast) that are delivered by fiber optic line and not by satellite being withheld from DirecTV and Dish Network. The Versus/DirecTV dispute is completely different, its about pricing and package placement. Also Versus is on Dish Network so it obviously isn't fiber delivered. TomCat4680 (talk) 19:56, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

Versus (TV channel) should be merged with NBC Sports.
Once Versus is re-branded to reflect NBC Sports, the two Wikipedia articles dealing with Versus (TV channel) and NBC Sports should be merged together. There will be no more real need for the Versus (TV channel) Wikipedia article, as the former-Versus will simply become NBC Sports. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Operaman86 (talk • contribs) 07:07, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Disagree, and here's why: A) We still have articles on defunct television and radio networks NBC Red Network and Setanta Sports USA for two examples, and B) we will still need to have an article on what they're currently broadcasting (for example, we do not redirect CBS Sports Network, formerly CBS College Sports to the CBS Sports article. SirFozzie (talk) 09:02, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

Article renaming premature
The channel's name will remain as Versus until January 2, 2012, after which it will be renamed NBC Sports Network. Today's name change to NBC Sports Network was four months premature and the article's name should remain Versus until then. TomCat4680 (talk) 22:57, 4 August 2011 (UTC)


 * Per your request, I've merged the page histories at the title Versus (TV channel). —David Levy 03:20, 5 August 2011 (UTC)

VERSUS TRANSITION TO NBC SPORTS NETWORK - JAN 2, 2012 - WAIT UNTIL THEN TO MOVE THIS PAGE...
VERSUS TRANSITION TO NBC SPORTS NETWORK - JAN 2, 2012 - WAIT UNTIL THEN TO MOVE THIS PAGE... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Chris1294 (talk • contribs) 01:02, 20 December 2011 (UTC)


 * They have announced that the new name will specifically take place at exactly 4pm Eastern Time.. Please do not get into page move war if someone does the page move a few hours earlier that day. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (talk) 07:26, 31 December 2011 (UTC)


 * To prevent that from occurring, I've move-protected the article until one minute before the name change takes effect. —David Levy 08:16, 31 December 2011 (UTC)


 * Every network that has gone through a name change keeps its history... Not sure why you seem to be going nuts about it. Blahblah32blahblah (talk) 18:12, 1 January 2012 (UTC)


 * For what it's worth, I could see where separate articles could be merited if an old network was closed and and its space was taken over a completely new network; e.g., Newsworld International being replaced by Current TV and Trio being shuttered by NBC Universal in favor of Sleuth. But that's not the case here; NBC Sports Network is pretty much just a rebranding of what had been Versus, and most of the changes accompanying the new name (including the synergy with NBC Sports that one would expect from a channel called "NBC Sports Network") have gradually been phased in over the last few months anyhow. For all intents and purposes, it's just a new name for the same service, just as NBCUniversal previously did with Sci-Fi Channel (now Syfy) and the aforementioned Sleuth (which is now Cloo), amongst many other similar changes over the years (e.g., Viacom changing Noggin to Nick Jr. and The N to TeenNick to reflect their ties to Nickelodeon, but with no change to the channels' missions and minimal changes to the programming). (Indeed, the name change from Versus to NBC Sports Network is really not that much different from the change from OLN to Versus, as just like the current relaunch many of the moves that wound up necessitating that name change — i.e., the emphasis on sports instead of merely the outdoors — predated the renaming — and our OLN article is firmly about the Canadian channel that, due to CRTC rules, did not take part in that renaming because those factors were inapplicable to the Canadian channel.) In other words, NBC Sports Network is a new channel in name only; in all other ways, it is the same as Versus. -- WC  Quidditch  &#9742;   &#9998;  19:22, 1 January 2012 (UTC)


 * Certainly, you can wait three more hours. Lambertman (talk) 18:08, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

NBC renames NBC Sports Network to NBCSN
Given that the official name of the channel is now NBCSN, it seems that a move to NBCSN, and an accompanying redirect for NBC Sports Network, would be appropriate. Rockypedia (talk) 18:29, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I actually object per WP:COMMONNAME, it is just an abbreviation of NBC Sports Network, and I presume that the majority of sources will continue (unless there are space concerns) using the full name. ViperSnake151   Talk  00:59, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That would be valid, except that in this particular case, it is not "just" an abbreviation - it is an actual name change being made by the parent company, from "NBC Sports Network" to "NBCSN". Just as ESPN used to be an abbreviation for Entertainment and Sports Programming Network, but later changed their official name to ESPN, the letters NBCSN are now the official name. Rockypedia (talk) 01:12, 21 November 2013 (UTC)
 * See Official names. ViperSnake151   Talk  06:25, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * "In many cases, the official name will be the best choice to fit these criteria." This is one of those cases. Rockypedia (talk) 07:13, 27 November 2013 (UTC)
 * That's just your own opinion. Even though it changed its name to just FSN, we still had its article at Fox Sports Net. ViperSnake151   Talk  00:08, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Again, you're incorrect. Fox Sports Net never changed its name to FSN.  That was just an abbreviation; the official name was Fox Sports Net and later became Fox Sports Networks.  In the case of NBC Sports Network, they've changed the actual name to NBCSN.  In other words, the exact opposite of what you said is true. Rockypedia (talk) 05:53, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * But still, how many sources still use the full name? ViperSnake151   Talk  23:44, 28 January 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't know. Can you count them for me, and let me know when you have a definitive number, and include links to all the sources you've counted? Thanks.  Rockypedia (talk) 06:43, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Change of name without consensus
A recent edit to move the page back to its full name was reverted by Rockypedia, citing this discussion as consensus. However, there was no consensus made in this discussion, simply arguments made against those who object to his opinion. He asserts that because "NBCSN" is now the "official" name, it must be the article title. I disagree, because it is presumed that the full name is still the legal name, and that NBC had only chosen to only use the initials in marketing. It also keeps the article in line with similar articles (CBS Sports Network, Fox Sports 1, although CBSSN or FS1 are not used as much on-air in these cases), and NBCSN is not precise enough. ViperSnake151  Talk  02:14, 19 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I'm all for opening this up to a larger discussion. I'll start by pointing out that while there was a discussion between you and I months ago about this, and an admin got involved to help make the move to NBCSN, the move back to NBC Sports Network a few days ago was done unilaterally and with zero discussion. Now, to address your specific points:


 * 1: I'd like to see evidence of how you infer that NBC uses the "full name" as the "legal name". I see no references supporting that assertion.
 * 2: Saying NBC only uses the "initials" in marketing is misleading - they literally changed the name of the network to NBCSN, as is evidenced by several references provided.
 * 3: Your example of "CBSSN" is also misleading - there's almost no use of that term in the CBS Sports Network. Meanwhile, actual articles where the initials are used as the article name, because that's the actual name of the networks in question, include ESPN (formerly Entertainment and Sports Programming Network), CNBC (formerly Consumer News and Business Channel), A&E (TV channel) (formerly Arts & Entertainment Network), BET (Black Entertainment Television), PBS (Public Broadcasting Service), PBS (Public Broadcasting Service), MTV (originally an initialism of Music Television), TNT (TV channel) (Turner Network Television), HGTV (an initialism for Home & Garden Television), TLC (TV network) (formerly an abbreviation of The Learning Channel), AMC (TV channel) (formerly American Movie Classics), HBO (formerly Home Box Office), VH1 (originally an initialism of Video Hits One), CNN (Cable News Network), among others.
 * Given the ample precedent for referring to a channel by its actual name, even if that name derived from a non-abbreviated form of that name, I believe NBCSN is the proper name for the article. Rockypedia (talk) 14:56, 19 July 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 14 January 2018

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. (closed by page mover) GeoffreyT2000 (talk) 04:39, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

NBCSN → NBC Sports Network – New name Zacharycook597 (talk) 00:08, 14 January 2018 (UTC)


 * Oppose. The current branding for this channel appears to be "NBCSN". Why would we move the article back to the old name that isn't used anymore? Rreagan007 (talk) 04:33, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The current name and branding is NBCSN. NBC Sports Network was its former branding and name. I cannot find a source or official announcement that they are going to go back to that, especially on NBC Sports' press release web site http://nbcsportsgrouppressbox.com (all the recent press releases that reference the channel say "NBCSN", not "NBC Sports Network"). Zzyzx11 (talk) 02:12, 16 January 2018 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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Concern about closing NBCSN
NBCSN cannot be closed and ceased operation on January 1, 2022, when I can be a viewer to watch of any Winter and Summer Olympics sports. It will stay on, and I have to find another chance to write a letter. 72.69.243.12 (talk) 17:15, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

All programming is moving to USA Network Mannysoloway (talk) 17:05, 1 January 2022 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:NESN which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 21:32, 29 April 2022 (UTC)