Talk:NFL International Series

Please change: listed teams for 2017 to Saints v Dolphins and Jguars having a home game. Evidence: Teams for next year (apart from Saints v Dolphins, and Jaguars) have not been confirmed as far as I can tell. This site should remove the other teams listed or add some credible citations.
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  JTP ( talk • contribs) 01:09, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

Jaguars most likely to move to London - LaCanfora's "cite"
Jason LaCanfora's assertion that the Jaguars are most likely to move to London is an opinion piece, and an not be supported. Unless Wikipedia is becoming a repository for rumors, it doesn't belong.

WP:RS and WP:NEWSORG - News sources often contain both factual content and opinion content. "News reporting" from well-established news outlets is generally considered to be reliable for statements of fact (though even the most reputable reporting sometimes contains errors). News reporting from less-established outlets is generally considered less reliable for statements of fact. Editorial commentary, analysis and opinion pieces, whether written by the editors of the publication (editorials) or outside authors (op-eds) are reliable primary sources for statements attributed to that editor or author, but are rarely reliable for statements of fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.157.244.189 (talk) 19:30, 18 July 2013 (UTC)

The 2005 Mexico City Game
I feel this article is somewhat misleading in including the Mexico City game as part of the NFL International Series proper. Although conceptually it may be similar in being a regular season game outside of the USA, it would not appear to be part of the same corporate initiative they are developing in London with the International Series. It is certainly worth a mention in the article, but I don't feel it should be included in the official list of International Series games at the end. The match-day branding at each of the IS Games has stressed the game number quite prominently (i.e. 2011 was "Game 5") and this clearly does not include Mexico City. That game should be filed away on its own, or as part of a larger article including the Buffalo Bills games played in Toronto. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.194.30.210 (talk) 20:36, 8 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Based on the list provided by the NFL, it appears you are correct. I'll go ahead and remove it.  TDL (talk) 05:55, 20 October 2013 (UTC)
 * This boxscore for today's game from the NFL clearly labels the 8th game in London the "International Series Game 8". If it is only the 8th game, the Mexico City game can't possibly be part of this series.  I've moved the content to List of National Football League games played outside the United States where it is more appropriate.  Are there any reliable sources that claim that it is?  TDL (talk) 04:02, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Also http://www.nfl.com/international does not list the 2005 Mexico game as part of the International Series. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:21, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * http://nflcommunications.com/2013/10/24/2014-international-series-games-confirmed does not either. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:32, 28 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Ditto for . Aside from the list, it explicitly says "London's Wembley Stadium has been the site for every International Series game played thus far."  Looks like it is case closed.  TDL (talk) 04:53, 28 October 2013 (UTC)

Question
When will the 2016 London games be announced? --74.130.133.1 (talk) 02:34, 3 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Usually near the end of the current season. I think the week leading up to the Super Bowl is when they announce the London games. DragonFury (talk) 10:02, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Is it after the last London game which is the Chiefs-Lions game? I hope my Green Bay Packers play there next year. --74.130.133.1 (talk) 15:04, 3 October 2015 (UTC)

Due to be announced on November 25. An e-mail from NFLUK confirmed this earlier in the week — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.96.244.65 (talk) 19:44, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Redskins
Yesterday, I just figured out that the Redskins might play a home game in London next year. Where should I add this information:
 * The Washington Redskins are being considered to play a home game in London in 2016.

Should I add it in the section 2016 or Possible teams under future markets. Please respond to this. Thank you! --74.130.133.1 (talk) 14:36, 10 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Since nothing official has been announced regarding the Washington franchise playing in London, the only place it would appropriate to list this rumor at this point would seem to be in the (poorly named IMHO) "Possible teams" section. If you choose to add something here, it would be good if you add the similar rumor about the Packers as well. &mdash; DeeJayK (talk) 16:38, 12 October 2015 (UTC)

Thanks. By the way, at that data for the 2016 games, I added Mexico City, because a game might happen. In the 2016 section, I added that the Houston Texans because they are interested in playing a game in Mexico next year. --74.130.133.1 (talk) 02:32, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

jaguars opponent for 2016
When is the Jaguars opponent for 2016 announced? please reply --74.130.133.1 (talk) 02:21, 22 October 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not aware of any timeline for the release of this information. &mdash; DeeJayK (talk) 13:07, 22 October 2015 (UTC)

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Removal of London expansion info
An IP user, currently on User:152.208.1.135, has removed the Potential London team section 3 times, with the second edit summary stating "No possibility for an NFL team in London and BBC and The Guardian are not good sources for a future team there." This is apparently just the IP's opinion, as they have provided no reliable sources for their claim.

As noted in their revert, there is an entire sourced article about a Potential London NFL franchise. Without verifiable reliable sources of unquestionable quality that clearly state the the NFL was never looking at the possibility of a franchise in London, this section should remain in this article. Thanks. - BilCat (talk) 08:15, 11 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 December 2016
Minnesota Vikings  (are the away team against Cleveland)                Date: 10/22 or 10/29/17     Twickenham Stadium Arizona Cardinals  (are the away team against LA)                       Date: 10/22 or 10/29/17     Twickenham Stadium Baltimore Ravens   (are the away team against Jacksonville Jaguars)     Date: 9/24/17 or 10/1/17    Wembley Stadium New Orleans Saints  Miami Dolphins                                      Date: 9/24/17 or 10/1/17    Wembley Stadium

After the 2017 season, only 5 teams will not have played in the International Series: The Carolina Panthers, Green Bay Packers, Philadelphia Eagles, Seattle Seahawks and Tennessee Titans. The Jacksonville Jaguars have played four international games, the most of any team, and are scheduled to play at least one international game every season through 2020. The Miami Dolphins will play their fourth game in the 2017 season. Pvvora (talk) 13:18, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  JTP ( talk • contribs) 14:49, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

2017 Rebranding
Since 2017, the games appear to have been rebranded as "NFL London Games" and "NFL Mexico Game" with the "International Series" name dropped altogether. Is there a way we can get these new logos added into article?
 * Nothing is rebranded. The series' name is the same. They just started calling one part of the series as "NFL London Games" and the other part as "NFL Mexico Games". Please refrain from moving this again until you haves sources, because you are starting an edit war. – Sabbatino (talk) 11:31, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

I will refrain from editing until we reach a consensus. However, there was no "International Series" name used at all in London this year and I expect Mexico will be the same. All official sources and media are using the "London Games" term — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven a68 (talk • contribs) 11:35, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * WP:NFL has been notified about this so wait until someone else gives their opinion on this matter. – Sabbatino (talk) 11:45, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * If you feel strongly enough, you can make a request at Requested moves to rename this article and see if there is a consensus.—Bagumba (talk) 11:59, 26 September 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 26 September 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: Not moved &mdash; Amakuru (talk) 17:22, 4 October 2017 (UTC)

NFL International Series → NFL London and Mexico Games – reason=In 2017 the "International Series" logo and name did not appear at all. The series appears to have been retrospectively rebranded as NFL London Games and NFL Mexico Game, all branded logos and media seemed to confirm this. Steven a91 (talk) 14:08, 26 September 2017 (UTC)


 * Comment – can you provide us with some reliable third party sources that the new name is the WP:COMMONNAME? I have noticed that NFLCommunications.com (where I obtain NFL/team logos and brand guides) is no longer issuing an 'NFL International Series' logo and instead issuing an 'NFL London Games' and 'NFL Mexico Games' logo as seen at NFL International, but I am going to need more sources before I support a move. Corkythe  hornetfan  (ping me) 14:33, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose – the nominator hasn't provided [enough] proof to show that the series name has changed. As of right now, I am opposing the name change. Corky Buzz by the Hornet's Nest  19:29, 27 September 2017 (UTC)

UTC)
 * Oppose that specific title. If the International Series branding is no longer officially used, it would make more sense to merge the article with List of National Football League games played outside the United States, possibly under a different title entirely because of the current title's length.  ONR  (talk) 19:27, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment – I agree we could work on the title and happy to take suggestions? Maybe the article should now be split all together into ‘’’NFL London Games’’’ and ‘’’NFL Mexico Game’’’? I feel there is adequate information to keep this in its own article — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven a91 (talk • contribs) 08:09, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. By the looks of it they are not consistent themselves as they use either "NFL London Games" or "NFL London Series". – Sabbatino (talk) 08:17, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment – I’ve not seen “NFL London Series” anywhere, you got any sources? Steven a91 (talk)
 * Suggestion – How about the name NFL International Games? I think that succinctly represents the current new names of both parts of the series Steven a91 (talk) 09:56, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Comment On this page, it is still called the International Series in places. However, an archived version of the page had an International Series 2017 logo, which isn't there on the live page anymore. This video uploaded by the NFL calls it the International Series in the title. WikiOriginal-9 (talk) 21:53, 27 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose International Series is fine the way it is. Jgera5 (talk) 01:28, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose (for Now) There's been one game so far and it's for too soon to make a definitive decision. Perhaps at the end of this years London/Mexico games - if that's the name the NFL are clearly using, then a change may be appropriate then - Rehnn83 Talk 16:00, 28 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The league is still using the phrase "NFL International" for the collective of both series. Since the phrase "NFL International Series" is the last known official name for the whole, and the league hasn't fully abandoned it, I'd advise against changing the title unless they explicitly come up with a new brand. J. Myrle Fuller (talk) 22:05, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose Like others have stated, this is still the name the league uses. Also, if any of the expansion plans of these games (Germany, China, Australia, Canada, etc.) ever come to be, we'll just have to move it around again. Elisfkc (talk) 18:34, 2 October 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

“International Series” logo
Could we get the logo changed to both the new London Games and Mexico Game logo? The International Series logo has not appeared in 2017. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven a91 (talk • contribs) 08:37, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose request as yet another attempt to remove the International Series branding from the article. At best, the London and Mexico logos should be placed in the 2017 section of the article.  ONR  (talk) 16:23, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * I will add the logos,, the minute they are placed at the top of the article to replace the International Series logo , I will ask for a speedy deletion and they will be removed from Wikipedia. I am going to put them in the Long-term deals and new stadiums (2016–present) section where they belong. Corky Buzz by the Hornet's Nest   19:50, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 3 November 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: not moved. Jenks24 (talk) 20:47, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

NFL International Series → NFL International Games – International Series branding appears to be superseded by sub-series names. Steven a91 (talk) 08:41, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose per previous discussion. In addition, you should not request a new move after a month since last discussion. Give it more time. – Sabbatino (talk) 10:58, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose per our last discussion that was closed exactly one month ago. Corky Buzz by the Hornet's Nest   11:59, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose - No sources provided to support new title, too soon after last proposal by same user. Malformed requests like this just waste people's time, and needs to stop or be stopped. I recommend the discussion be closed immediately. - BilCat (talk) 16:08, 3 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Oppose again, it's too soon since the last RM. Possible WP:SNOW close.  ONR  (talk) 16:21, 3 November 2017 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Splitting game history table?
With agreement that series now has obvious split into two sub-series. Is it worth splitting up the game history table into Mexico and London Games? Would allow for better linking and look less cluttered. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Steven a91 (talk • contribs) 00:59, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * Right now, there have only been two games played in Mexico with a third one later this year. I don't see the need to split it. Corky  01:21, 15 January 2018 (UTC)
 * It's a thought, but it isn't necessary at this time.  ONR  (talk) 18:30, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

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São Paulo game
There are plans to held a game in São Paulo, SP, Brazil. |Link Can anyone add that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.26.55.43 (talk) 20:34, 4 March 2019 (UTC)


 * From reading the Google translation, it's only a proposal by Saõ Paulo at this point. We probably need to wait and see if it progresses any further first. - BilCat (talk) 01:27, 5 March 2019 (UTC)

AFC/NFC in table
I agree with your point that A and N in the tables being confused with footnotes as opposed to being defined above in the table's key. Typically * or † is used. is also right that a symbol is still needed in addition to color per MOS:COLOR. For me, the solution might be just to remove the AFC/NFC markings (color and symbol) entirely, as the information seems trivial. It's not an AFC vs NFC contest, per se. Also, is it even significant if one conference appeared more than the other?—Bagumba (talk) 04:25, 8 October 2019 (UTC)
 * I don't see any issue with that. Other similar pages do not have conference designations in standings or game results sections, such as the Pro Football Hall of Fame Game, the season kickoff game, Thanksgiving games, and Christmas games.  The only other such page that has these designations is List of Super Bowl Champions, but that case is different because the Super Bowl is always an AFC vs. NFC game.  My only concern is that if there are color designations, a letter or symbol should also be included per MOS:COLOR (as brought up by Bagumba).   Frank Anchor Talk 13:05, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Post game/half time entertainment
Column for post game/half time entertainment was removed without discussion. I feel this should have been discussed. It seems appropriate to me to have this included. Steven a91 (talk) 20:51, 17 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Why? Unlike the Super Bowl, these games aren't remembered for their pre-game or half-time performances. – PeeJay 13:53, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

Sorting by scores per team
What's the point of sorting by scores per team rather than easily seeing the total score for a single game? What's the use in seeing that the Chiefs scored 45 points in 2015, one more than the Jaguars scores in 2017? DragonFury (talk) 22:08, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Number of 2022 London games
So is it five London games? Or five in total, one of them in Germany, so four in London? Or one in Germany, one in Mexico, or three in London? If it's not yet clear either (any!) way, we should presumably pare this back to the part we can actually source. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 01:31, 18 February 2022 (UTC)
 * There are five games in the International Series, three in London, one in Mexico, one in Germany. This is accurately reflected in the article. DragonFury (talk) 12:18, 21 February 2022 (UTC)
 * My mistake, I'd misread the "London Games" table, which is rendered in a slightly confusing way. We seem to have a jumble of lighter and heavier weight horizontal lines.  These seem to actually be rather arbitrary, but the eye is drawn to reading the heavier ones as delineating years and the lighter ones different stadia -- or mine was, at least.  Not obvious if this is tweakable in any way.  109.255.211.6 (talk) 14:38, 22 February 2022 (UTC)

Team names
The Houston Oilers is an old name for the Tennessee Titans, the Titans played in London, so by that logic they should be listed as "Houston Oilers/Tennessee Titans". Except they're not, because the Oilers never played in London. And neither have the Washington Commanders, so stop adding the Commanders name to the list. DragonFury (talk) 11:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The standings page describes franchises as a whole, not indivisual seasons. Therefore, it should always include the team's current name.  The Oilers/Titans example is NOT a valid comparison because the International Series did not exist when the Titans were known as the Oilers.  Frank   Anchor  13:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * What about the Oakland/Las Vegas Raiders then? They haven’t played overseas since moving to Las Vegas, so why list that name? – PeeJay 14:19, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I had completely forgotten that the Raiders had moved to Las Vegas, thanks for catching that. And it feeds into my argument; for this article the teams listed should be the ones that actually played in the Series. The Oakland Raiders have played in London, the Las Vegas Raiders have not. The Redskins have played in London, the Commanders have not. DragonFury (talk) 15:22, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Except for the fact that the Oakland/Las Vegas Raiders and the Washington Redskins/Football Team/Commanders are the same franchises (and again, the Titans/Oilers argument is invalid because the International Series did not exist during the Oilers-era). But really not that big of a deal since the argument will likely be moot within the next 2-3 years with as they will get their turn to play in London again.  Frank  Anchor  16:47, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Sure, but until then, it doesn’t matter if they’re the same franchises - it’s anachronistic to refer to the Washington Commanders in the standings table since no team by that name has currently played in London. That franchise has only played one international game, so referring to them by two names is confusing and misleading. – PeeJay 20:18, 15 November 2022 (UTC)