Talk:NKVD special camps in Germany 1945–1950

Panart?
German Wikipedia doesn't know any place called Panart.Xx236 (talk) 13:39, 17 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Neither does the Polish. But I dug around, and I might have shed a little light, if not a solution.  I looked at the source for this part of the article.  The book is in German; parts of it are on line, including--happily--the pages referred to in the footnote.  Yes, it lists this mysterious "Panart," which it refers to as "Siedlung Panart."  If my German suffices, Siedlung means settlement; I sort of take that to mean it was a place that had a common name, but no official status.  The source has a footnote to the name; the note reads, "Dieser Ort konnte nicht nachgewiesen werden."  I take that to mean, this place cannot be verified.  140.147.236.195 (talk) 20:31, 27 June 2011 (UTC)Stephen Kosciesza

POV

 * This article ignores the existence of Poland, it calls the cities Kraków, Poznań, Łódź and Mysłowice to be situated in "an area that was about to be handed over to Poland and Russia". The article should be rewritten.
 * I have removed German names of Polish cities used by the Nazi administration. This is an English language Wikipedia and we are discussing post-WWII period.Xx236 (talk) 07:03, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Woogie, what is your problem? I have removed German names of Polish cities, but it doesn't change the main problem of "an area that was about to be handed over to Poland and Russia" which describes here both the area and Poland. I'm against cancelling of Poland.And discussing of Romania and Yougoslavia in a section about area east to Oder-Neisse is absurd. Xx236 (talk) 10:55, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Xx236 (talk) 11:04, 28 August 2013 (UTC)


 * I have added "and in Poland in 1937 borders" to the lead. Is it OK in English or rather "and in Poland in its 1937 borders"?Xx236 (talk) 11:06, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Tell us what edit do you propose to fix the problem?--Woogie10w (talk) 11:21, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * See above.Xx236 (talk) 11:41, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

You have changed the lead to Eastern Germany only but left the Eastern Europe section. Either the article is about Germany or about the whole Soviet camp. And what is the meaning of "that" in "in an area that Poland and Russia, Slovakia, Romania and Yugoslavia." ?Xx236 (talk) 11:45, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Handover to East Germany - it's about the camps in Eastern Germany. The other camps were cancelled or handed over to other countries. Xx236 (talk) 11:49, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Why "prior to May 1945" if the section is more general?Xx236 (talk) 12:06, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Because these were not the Special Camps in the SBZ, they were filtration camps during the war. BTW the Soviets held Poles suspected AK in these camps. --Woogie10w (talk) 12:12, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
 * If the article is about camps for Germans, why camps mainly for AK are listed (e.g. Rembertów) without a comment? The name of the article should be changed to NKVD special camps for Germans.Xx236 (talk) 07:14, 29 August 2013 (UTC)

"Some were sent for Forced labor of Germans in the Soviet Union and others transfered to the NKVD special camps in occupied Germany after May 1945" - but prisoners from Bautzen were transferred to Toszek, where many of them died.Xx236 (talk) 07:23, 29 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The article uses exclusively German sources.Xx236 (talk) 06:45, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Were they secret?
re: "existence of the camps was kept secret" - I tagged as dubious.

Every occupation zone in Germany had their share of internment camps for Nazis. This was not big secret. (but judging by the absence of the corresponding article, it is still a secret for en" wikipedia, even greater than the Soviet camps :-) Unlike the Internment camps in Western Sones the peculiarity of Soviet ones is that they existed for very long time. It is quite possible the soviet denied their continued existence. Independent sources required. -M.Altenmann >t 04:17, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

Instrumentalisierung, Verdrängung, Aufarbeitung: die sowjetischen Speziallager in der gesellschaftlichen Wahrnehmung 1945 bis heute p.12 is on Google books--Woogie10w (talk) 11:12, 9 June 2015 (UTC)

i stand corrected. actually american interment camps operated at least until 1948. and it is unclear how soviets "denied" existence of their camps when their establishment was the joint allies powers decision. -M.Altenmann >t 15:11, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Swiridow or Sirikow?
The same person appears to be given both names in this article. Equinox (talk) 13:14, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Отдел спецлагерей НКВД—МВД в Германии последовательно возглавляли: в 1945—1947 годах — полковник М. Е. Свиридов (ранее сотрудник Политуправления погранвойск НКВД), в 1947—1949 годах — полковник Н. Т. Цикляев (ранее зам. начальника УМВД Ставропольского края), с 1949-го — полковник В. П. Соколов (ранее начальник ОИТК УМВД Смоленской области). На основании постановления Совмина СССР № 6021-2251сс от 30 декабря 1949-го и приказа МВД № 0022 от 6 января 1950-го Отдел спецлагерей и сами спецлагеря в Германии будут ликвидированы. --from Nikita Petrov's ИСТОРИЯ ИМПЕРИИ "ГУЛАГ". -M.Altenmann >t 15:04, 15 June 2015 (UTC)

Comments on the need for clarification in the above article.
This article requires four clarifications: -Who managed the NKVD camps? Answer: The GULAG camp administration. -What was the cause of the high mortality rate? Answer: mainly starvation and disease -Expand on the Soviet legal basis for incarceration -What was the purpose of the Waldheim trials? To create fear in the East-German populace Zweisimmen (talk) 20:40, 28 May 2018 (UTC) The GULAG in East Germany: Soviet Special Camps 1945-1950 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zweisimmen (talk • contribs)

Interesting, but do you have a reliable source that can be verified to support your comments?--Woogie10w (talk) 20:57, 28 May 2018 (UTC)

The answer is yes; please refer to The Gulag in East Germany: Soviet Special Camps 1945-1950, Teneo Press/Cambria Press, Amherst, New York, 2018;in the Bibliography, especially: Mironenko, Sergej,, Lutz Niethammer, and Alexander von Plato, Sowjetische Speziallager in Deutschland, Berlin, Akademie Verlag, 1998 but there are other sources as well.Zweisimmen (talk) 15:20, 1 June 2018 (UTC)