Talk:NProtect GameGuard

Untitled
Previous problems of nProtect GameGuard with Windows Vista and AVG have been resolved. 210.217.175.101 (talk) 07:07, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The sentence regarding the Error 114 was removed due to the link to the FAQ page where the Error can be resolved. Kevinkph85 (talk) 08:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

The previous problem with Panda Security has been resolved. Kevinkph85 (talk) 00:31, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

To make flyff run in ubuntu, i used: VirtualBox Drivers for the video card Directx 9.0 Directx sdk --Manatax (talk) 19:23, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

It seems like that GameGuard doesn't conflict with NetLimiter anymore. This is using Vista x64 DarkStarZN (talk) 07:05, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

This seems to be correct, I run NetLimiter 2.0.10.1 just fine with GameGuard. I also run SpeedFan without issues. --208.102.90.111 (talk) 18:25, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Game Guard will not work on Windows 7 Beta. DarkStarZN (talk) 12:32, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Can someone clarify what B2B2C is? 144.32.58.227 (talk) 18:56, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

I've tested a lot of things that its supposed to conflict with (for instance Razer mouse, launching apps from Steam) and nothing seemed to happen - everything seemed to work just fine. Also - has some reputable security organization actually analyzed this program and determined it is a rootkit? I've searched all over, but haven't found anything.Skuld-Chan (talk) 08:18, 4 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No need. The article states quite clearly that it hooks API calls and actively manipulates them to hide its processes. That is the definition of a rootkit. So as long as those statements are true, no further analysis is needed. --DanielPharos (talk) 12:58, 23 July 2009 (UTC)

I've just completed a review of Aion's supposed incompatibility issues. Nearly all were actually compatible and the ones that weren't are known hacker tools. I use several of them myself. Any references to issues pertaining to or emanating from the Aionsource website need to be deleted as they are not accurate (VNC works, GG just disables input for the duration, and every single AV program listed works IF you do what you're supposed to do and add GG to the exception list), and in several cases totally false (Windows Sidebar works 100% of the time. This was a very silly thing to list), or even stupid (PunkBuster is trying to do the same job GG does, of course they're going to conflict, the same way that two antivirus programs conflict). ashleyjalapeno (talk) 19:34, 31 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Can you point to a good, preferably more recent third-party source to confirm this? If you tested this personally, please be aware that what works for you does not always work for everybody else too (also, no original reason allowed on Wikipedia anyway). --DanielPharos (talk) 18:38, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Can anyone find a source that says GameGuard (or at least older versions) can corrupt drivers of certain Logitech keyboards if it crashes? I've experienced this, but I don't want to add it to the article if it's only a problem on my end. —Brandon Dusseau (talk) 20:46, 8 September 2009 (UTC)
 * What do you exactly mean by corrupting a driver? Does it 'damage' the driver such that when the PC restarts, it doesn't load correctly? It would be VERY bad if GameGuard indeed corrupts drivers! (Or, maybe Windows detects the crash, sees the Logitech driver 'causing' it (GameGuard as a rootkit can cause that to happen), and auto-disables it?) --DanielPharos (talk) 22:42, 8 September 2009 (UTC)


 * Back when MapleStory used GameGuard, when it crashed, it would stop my wireless keyboard and mouse from functioning until I reinstalled the driver. It became a nuisance when I had to keep reinstalling it and using the on-screen keyboard to do so, as my computer has no PS/2 ports and I didn't have any generic USB keyboards or mice. It might have been fixed since then, but I thought it would be worth mentioning. The keyboard is a Logitech S510 Keyboard + Mouse combo, if it helps. —Brandon Dusseau (talk) 10:06, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
 * I found this: and  It seems this could be/have been a more widespread problem. However, I think we need to find a VERY recent source; I don't want to add an old, fixed problem to the article. We also need to make sure if it's GameGuard's fault, or a broken driver. And of course: WP:NOR --DanielPharos (talk) 12:05, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Gameguard is hated by many mac/linux user because it can't be used with wine/cedega. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.158.163.254 (talk) 18:52, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
 * And that's who's fault? Actually It's the developers fault because even when MAC/LINUX users try to talk to them they do not cooperate. You see, the problem itself is not that complicate to fix because wine can't use a function that is used by GameGuard and it could easily be fixed.

Aion
Aion has ditched gg in the NA, EU and AU release, although I'm not sure about the status of the asian version. Because it might still be used in asia, I'm not removing it from the list.
 * I added this link to the article. Thanks for mentioning it! They indicate that in the future they're probably going to use it, so I indeed don't want to remove it (yet). --DanielPharos (talk) 10:34, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

"dump_" prefix
Don't use it! It's a semi-official 'standard' for representing locked, unrepresentable or otherwise not locatable drivers. The memory image of the driver is dumped, hence the driver is simply named "dump_imagename". The file on disk and the file itself is not "dump_name", this is inaccurate and misleading. Have at least some basic experience or knowledge in Windows kernel debugging before editing about drivers. Wayne Hardman (talk) 03:14, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Wayne Hardman: You could not be more incorrect. The name of the driver is indeed "dump_wmimmc.sys" -- I invite you or anyone else to view the driver (which I have prevented GameMon from deleting), for yourself. driver: http://dump.ru/file/4450408 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fyyre (talk • contribs) 16:12, 17 March 2010 (UTC)

Source cleanup
There are a significant number of sources being used to create this article which fail WP:V and WP:RS. Before adding more content to the article, please read those two pages. Forums, blogs, and other random user controlled pages don't meet the policies and guidelines in the slightest. Also keep in mind, this is an encyclopedia not a place to post testing data on what programs work and don't work with this. Its compatibility with Wine is not relevant to the article since NCsoft doesn't state it shouldn't run on wine. We could sit here all day and list things it doesn't run on. Because of the heavy usage of unreliable sources to draw content and create the problems section, etc I'm disputing the neutrality of the article.--Crossmr (talk) 01:29, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * I understand that some sources are 'bad', but you're replacing 'bad' sources with fact-tags. I'd rather have 'bad' sources, than no sources at all! Without fora and blogs, there are almost no third-party sources (that I know of). It would basically reduce this article to a few text-line stub. I don't see how that's an improvement...? --DanielPharos (talk) 10:43, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
 * We don't use bad sources because good sources aren't available. Bad sources are never used. If good sources can't be found for the content, its probably a sign that that particular content or information doesn't need to be in the encyclopedia. remember, the threshold for inclusion is verifiability not truth.--Crossmr (talk) 10:51, 10 October 2009 (UTC)

Keyboard conflicts and removal
I would like to ask if it's within guidelines to provide a way to remove Game Guard from a computer, since there is no unninstall and people wanting to get rid of it often end up formating their machines. Removal is quite simple in fact, just need to del some registry entries that install the rootkit services and reboot, it won't try to reattach until you run some game that uses it.

I would also like to point KNOWN conflicts with keyboards thanks to buggy keyboard virtual drivers from INCA. To quote the ones I know:


 * ps/2 keyboards on ps2/USB mobos sometimes will result on the GAME that uses GG to not properly map the key strokes, requiring installation of an USB keyboard (confirmed with several users of bRO). It can also lead to BSOD when you run such games unless you switch keyboard.
 * USB-only mobos running all devices on USB can result in driver conflicts that will make the keyboard or mouse not load uppon windows XP bootup. I can confirm and from my very own computers (can give you all technichal information on how to cause and solve it too). Whenever GG services are running, keyboard won't be detected upon boot and a disable/enable driver is required. Also confirmed users on bRO to have this issue. This has been confirmed on XP SP2 and XP SP3, didn't check Vista/Vista SP1

I find important to point out the keyboard issues because some people end up buying other keyboards thinking it's a hardware problem, when in fact it's a software problem

Caio 201.2.254.33 (talk) 18:17, 12 October 2009 (UTC)
 * No, wikipedia is not a how-to guide. We don't provide instructions for completing tasks. See the section above regarding reliable sources for the keyboard problems. Personal evidence is unfortunately not a reliable source.--Crossmr (talk) 00:39, 13 October 2009 (UTC)


 * I see. But other than real people having keyboard issues with GG, what would be a "reliable" source? I am a computer analyst and I confirm, and can prove (though that would be "personal evidence" with files and logs made by me) such claims. I was just recently being able to reproduce the ps/2 bug on USB keyboards as well: killing the registry keys and running a GG game will lead some USB drivers to totally shutdown, and you can SEE that happening if you keep the device manager open while you open the GG game. INCA certainly is not going to tell you GG have hardware conflicts, and I don't think any big magazine (verifiable/reliable) would ever bother, thus people will keep never knowing their keyboard issues are actually caused by a rootkit they don't even know they have. Caio 201.2.254.33 (talk) 08:21, 13 October 2009 (UTC)
 * A reliable source would be an article published by a newspaper, magazine, professional game reviewer, peer reviewed academic paper, etc. An evidence you provided would be a self-published source and self-published sources are only usable in a couple circumstances. The first being that the source is the subject of the article, or the person who wrote the item is a published and recognized expert in the field on which they are writing. For example if an individual is often interviewed and cited on a given subject, they would be considered an expert in the field. If they then wrote something in their blog about that something in that field it would be a reliable source. Remember the threshold for inclusion is verifiability not truth.--Crossmr (talk) 08:28, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

Just to let everyone know...About 4 months ago I was going to purchase a "G" series logitech keyboard / mouse that can record macro's as I wanted to play MMORPG's without all the grinding necessary. I talked with one of the guys at Logitech to see if this was they keyboard that would halt all my grindfest woes in the MMORPG i was playing at the time. He told me that the Logitech keyboard and mouse macro abilities would bypass all the security features of any game on the market that was not using GameGuard. This might be why you are having problems. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.75.245.226 (talk) 21:52, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

GG on Windows 7
I can verify that GameGuard does in fact work on Windows 7 (retail x64, b7600). I play Rappelz (a game that uses GameGuard) and I don't get any errors when playing it - in fact, to test this, I left the game run overnight and GameGuard still didn't close it. I am running the game as admin if that may be why. VBMonkey (talk) 22:54, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately you are not a reliable source. Any claims to functionality, bugs, etc need to come from those and especially current ones as well.--Crossmr (talk) 05:26, 8 January 2010 (UTC)

GG deleted Gamelist
Is this just another try to keep the knowledge from GameGuard low, or is this another act of vandalism, deleting the whole list of games who are using GameGuard? I really can understand the thinking of these people deleting informative pages: "the less people know, the less they are asking questions. At least they have no references and evidences so we can deny everything". unfortunately it works -.- May be just a mistake? hmm ok, 4 versions and still mistakes ^^ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.73.235.18 (talk) 21:58, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

GG Rootkit's Security Risk
The article mentions nothing about the risk that the GameGuard Rootkit with Keylogging has for the user's machine. Back when the infamous SONY Rootkit Scandal was being outed, a major concern brought up by various USA state's attorney generals was that the rootkit could be edited to send info back to hackers. Since the rootkit would be already installed, it would bypass many of the usual detection methods and thus be a trojan horse hackers could exploit since the hackers need not install much of the code or keylogger since it was already successfully installed. As a technically legal commercial product, GameGuard would not normally be detected or prevented by malware checkers such as antivirus, spyware, and rootkit detectors.AnimeJanai (talk) 12:51, 29 March 2011 (UTC)
 * If you can provide a reliable source that discusses this (e.g. not a forum, not a blog, or other self-published sources) feel free to bring it here.--Crossmr (talk) 07:43, 30 March 2011 (UTC)