Talk:Nadia Boulanger

Untitled
I removed Maurice Ravel from the list of her students. Ravel was 12 years older than Nadia and no teacher-student relationship is mentioned in either the 1980 Grove or the 2002 Grove. She did teach a lot of people though. Please give a source if you think you're sure. Antandrus (talk) 17:07, 13 August 2005 (UTC)

I likewise removed Igor Stravinsky as Nadia's pupil. When he came to Paris for the first time, in 1910, Stravinsky was already a composer, and "Nadia was only one of the many that hailed him as a new figure in the music world." (Leonie Rosenstiel, Nadia Boulanger, a life in music, 1982). carlos10@017.net.il.

Is it just me, or is it really annoying that most of this article is a list of her pupils? Mak (talk)  21:36, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

I think this article is pretty biased. One paragraph in particular lists all of these subjective qualities and doesn't even cite a source.

I've removed the "citation needed" from the into. That she was an outstanding teacher at the highest level is beyond question. mallardview (talk) 17:53, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * EVERYTHING in a Wiki article needs to be sourced - that's policy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.50.145 (talk) 12:10, 25 April 2021 (UTC)

I haven't fixed it because I don't know what was meant but under the pedagogue section it describes Debussy as "a disciple of Ravel". Really? That's a new one on me! The opposite may be more accurate but even that has been questioned.Ed (talk) 15:58, 27 November 2014 (UTC) Fixed - missing word! pgbrown (talk) 18:55, 27 November 2014 (UTC)

I tried to list Donald Covert as one of her pupils but it did not stay in the article. He studied with Mlle. Boulanger on and off and would be considered her finest of pupils as he finished his Conducting degree in Vienna. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:301:779F:D3C0:C459:BB3D:7B70:8AC (talk) 00:44, 9 October 2015 (UTC)
 * First, the addition is not sourced. Second, if the person isn't notable enough to have a Wikipedia article, then it certainly doesn't belong in the lead even if it were reliably sourced. The list is already too long anyway.--Bbb23 (talk) 01:23, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

More significant ancestry than shown
I remember reading somewhere (either in a music encyclopedia or a biography of Philip Glass) that Nadia was related to Mozart somehow or that she was some link in a chain of composers. Does anyone have any information to reference on this? -- Suso 03:54, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

An interesting note regarding the rivalry between Nadia and her sister Lilli: in the Archie comicbook "Betty and Veronica double digest # 182 Veronica Lodge refers to Betty Cooper as a "blonde Boulanger" in reference to a rivalry between Betty and the Lodge's chef Gaston and I did not understand the reference until I read this wikipedia article and the reference to the rivalry between the sisters.--Griffonclaw —Preceding unsigned comment added by Griffonclaw (talk • contribs) 19:49, 22 July 2010 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 07:33, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Discography
A quick run down the discs under "Boulanger in an English online classical music store reveals seven CDs devoted to one or both of the sisters. Anyone see any problems with adding them to the Discography? Guddle (talk) 05:42, 27 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Please add them. Badagnani (talk) 22:23, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

LinkMania
It seems ridiculous to make the words "composer", "conductor", and "music" into links to Wikipedia articles about those very general subjects, within this very specific article. Anyone looking up "Nadia Boulanger" is likely to have at least a vague idea what those words mean, and making them into links just fills the article with irrelevant blue colored text. This is almost as bad as making any date into a link to an article about all the other things that have happened on that date. 70.249.215.141 (talk) 01:31, 6 February 2010 (UTC) Jack O'Flaherty
 * Agree, and removed. Ceoil  sláinte 13:05, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

Original Research
I think the following claim should be removed: "It is probably because of her many American students and her constant promotion of American music, that she is more valued by composers from outside of France than by those from her native country". The sentence in nonsensical (did the author perhaps mean "is more valued by American composers"?) Either way, the claim is not fundamented, and misleading since Nadia is highly valued in France and acknowledged, as far as I can tell, far more often than in the US (e.g. on Radiofrance one can often hear "this piece was composed by [...] who studied under Nadia Boulanger"). 12.197.13.46 (talk) 19:07, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I took it out. The page needs lots of work. Ceoil  sláinte 00:09, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

"The page needs lots of work" that is a drastic understatement. The whole thing should be scrapped and rewritten by someone who knows how to cite. Timothy 72.85.148.226 (talk) 14:37, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Reassessment
After much work by User:Tim riley, this article is nearly B-class. One thing that is required to advance it to B: The introduction needs to be expanded so that it provides an overview of the entire article. -- Ssilvers (talk) 20:47, 16 September 2010 (UTC)
 * I've dealt with the lead, but C-class will still do, I think. - Tim riley (talk) 21:46, 17 September 2010 (UTC)

Nadia Boulanger School
"Some of her students, including Copland, Quincy Jones, Denoe Leedy, Walter Piston, George Peter Tingley, Roy Harris, Virgil Thomson, Louise Talma, Michel Legrand,Charles Fox, Joe Raposo, Astor Piazzolla, Philip Glass, Russell Woollen, Robert Shafer, and Elliott Carter established a new school of composition based on her teaching."

I don't think (having studied with one of her students and read Rosenstiel, among others) that there could be said to be a School of Nadia Boulanger, either created by her or subsequently by her students. The sheer variety of composers who studied with her and the vast differences in approach she took with each one, surely precludes such a conclusion. I think the original idea of a Boulanger School may have come from André Hodeir in 'Since Debussy' which describes such a School in derogatory terms.

I would suggest the sentence be removed or reworded to provide a more balanced view?

Pgbrown (talk) 11:12, 2 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I've removed the sentence as it was not supported by the source. Thanks for pointing it out.--Bbb23 (talk) 02:47, 3 February 2012 (UTC)

Rewrite
I've rewritten the article and would welcome feedback! Please visit my subpage to read it: User:Pgbrown/Nadia_Boulanger Pgbrown 17:59, 21 February 2012 (UTC)
 * I have scanned it and it looks good! I would suggest you copy / paste it into the main space article so other editors can use the diff function to see what you changed.... possibly a section at a time. Regards, Ariconte (talk) 19:23, 22 February 2012 (UTC)

Recent addition to lead
Someone (an IP address) has added 'pianist' to the first sentence of the lead. The initial description of NB has given me some trouble in trying to sum her up succinctly. NB was never really a performing pianist, although she accompanied Dinu Lipatti on some recordings and gave a few solo piano concerts in the very early years of her career. She played organ more frequently and premiered Copland's organ concerto.

I don't really like what's there "[NB] was a French composer, conductor, pianist and teacher who taught many of the leading composers and musicians of the 20th century.", but I can't see how to improve it.

Grateful for any assistance. pgbrown (talk) 12:47, 31 December 2012 (UTC)


 * Did a slight addition moving "pianist and organist" to a second sentence. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 19:00, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

I've just made a couple of minor changes to the opening paragraph, which I would not have done had the author not expressed dissatisfaction with it as it stood.

Whatever debilities the article may have had in earlier incarnations, it is now very strong. It was refreshing to read something so well written, logically organized, and informative. Congratulations to everyone who contributed to making it so. KC 16:08, 19 February 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boydstra (talk • contribs)

Idil Biret
I reverted an edit by pinkmlover to add Idil Biret to the lead for this article as I do not consider her notable enough for the lead. My edit has now been reverted, so I would like to ask for input from other editors on whether Biret should be included in the lead. pgbrown (talk) 13:56, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

And i'm copying the message which already posted on the pgbrown's user page for refering on this subject: "İdil Biret is one of the most respected student of Boulanger. She's also favourite student of Wilhelm Kempff. You can see this in famous documentary of Boulanger by Monsangeon or you can read in here if you don't known. Just her Naxos CDs sold over 2 million copies. Please don't remove her name because she's not "notable" enough! She's very very well known in Europe art society." --Pinkmlover (talk) 15:00, 22 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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