Talk:Naidu/Archive 1

Intercaste Marriages
What is the percentage of inter-caste and inter-religious marriages in the Naidu community? If it is less than 80%, aren't they anti-social? Maaparty 17:47, 24 December 2006 (UTC)

EVIDENCE FOR Relation between Sengunthars/ Kaikolars and Devadasis
1. The following is quoted from a legitimate third party website. http://globalindiamissions.org/newsletter/nwsltr0802.htm

'''The Kaikolan are a large Tamil and Telugu caste of weavers. There are seventy-two subdivisions (nadu or desams). Their name comes from a mythical hero and from the words "kai" (hand) and "koi" (shuttle). They consider the different parts of the loom to represent various gods and sages. They are also known as Sengundar, which means a red dagger, which is traced to the legend of the earth being harassed by demons, which led to the people asking the god Shiva to help them.'''

'''Traditionally, one girl in every family was set apart to be dedicated to temple service and becomes a "Devdasi" (meaning female servant of god). In the temple, the girl is considered married to the temple deity but in practice becomes a prostitute, especially to the Brahmans and she learns traditional music and dancing.'''

2. The following is journal research article with abundant valid references. This is as legitimate as it gets.

This article talks in much detail about how women from the Sengundhar/ Kaikola caste get into the sacred prostitution in temples.

"Contending identities: Sacred prostitution and reform in colonial South India Priyadarshini Vijaisri A1, A1 Centre for the Study of Developing Societies (CSDS), New Delhi" South Asia: Journal of South Asian Studies Publisher: Routledge, part of the Taylor & Francis Group Issue: Volume 28, Number 3 / December 2005 Pages: 387 - 411

To view the complete article just register, its free.

Here are the links :

http://journalsonline.tandf.co.uk/link.asp?id=jv31l27518262711 If you cannot access it then just go to the following page and follow one of the links

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Contending+identities%3A+Sacred+prostitution+and+reform+in+colonial+South+India

3. This is taken from another legitimate webiste http://www.go2southasia.org/l_peoples.html of a world renknown organisation recognised by many countries. They have no gain in just picking on the Sengunthar caste.

'''The KAIKOLAR people are a caste of weavers 1.5 million strong in southern India. They are Hindus and view different parts of the loom as representations of various gods and sages. Traditionally, each Kaikolar family sets aside one daughter to serve in a Hindu temple. That daughter is considered married to the temple deity—often the Hindu destroyer god Shiva. In practice, the daughter becomes a temple prostitute.'''

All 3 of the above references are quite legitimate and I can quote many more. There is no question of coincidence or any error in any of these sources. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mudaliar (talk • contribs) 21:22, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

Request for Comment TondaiMandala Saiva Vellala Mudaliar women were concubines of Brahmin priests in the temples and the current TondaiMandala Saiva Vellala Mudaliar men are bastards of Brahmins
Please comment on whether TondaiMandala Saiva Vellala Mudaliar women were concubines of Brahmin priests in the temples and the current TondaiMandala Saiva Vellala Mudaliar men are bastards of Brahmins. This was the reason Periyar fought against both these groups. Further this group claims to be the original Mudaliyar tribe of Tamilnadu. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Venki123 (talk • contribs) 2007-02-09T22:41:13 (UTC)

Names

 * MISSING PROMINENT BALIJA NAIDU NAMES:


 * Previously I saw a big list of prominent Balija Naidus(Kapus)in Naidu wikipedia; which for some reason (I do not know why?)was removed and only the list of few people is retained(I do not know why?)eventhough the latter are not as prominent as the people in the deleted list.The prominent people in the deleted list include Erode.V.Ramaswami Naiker(Founder  of Dravida Kazhagam), Samarla Venkata Ranga Rao (actor), Konidela Chiranjeevi(actor),M.R.Radha( actor),Savithri(actress), Pasupuleti Kannamba(actress), C.K.Naidu(Cricketer),Kodi Ramamurthi Naidu(Wrestler),Sobha Naidu(Kuchipudi dancer),Raghupathi Venkaiah Naidu(Father of Telugu films),Thapi Dharma Rao Naidu(writer),Dwaram Venkataswami Naidu(Carnatic musian),Manikonda Chalapathi Rao(Journalist),Dasari Narayana Rao(director),Kancharla Keshava Rao(Politician),Punjala Shivashankar(Politician),M.S.Ramaiah((Owner of Educational institutions),D.K.Adikeshavulu Naidu(Owner of Educational institutions)and   Narayana(Owner of Educational Institutions)etc.Is there any way if these names can be retained if some one is deliberately removing them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.145.57 (talk) 2007-04-01T02:23:00 (UTC)


 * Please remember to sign your messages on Talk pages with four tildes: ~


 * Lists of prominent people should contain only those who are genuinely prominent, not just locally important (see WP:BIO for an idea of what's needed). In practice, that means that people on such lists should have Wikipedia articles; if they're not significant enough for an article, then it's difficult to see how they can count as prominent. --Mel Etitis  ( Talk ) 09:46, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

THANKS FOR MEL ETITIS INPUT:

I searched and found out that Wikipedia articles are available for prominent Balija Naidus(Kapu/Telaga)such as E.V.Ramaswami Naiker(Periar),Samarla Venkata Ranga Rao,Konidela Chiranjeevi,M.R.Radha,Savithri,Kodi Ramamurthi Naidu,Raghupathi Venkaiah Naidu,Dwaram Ventaswami Naidu,Manikonda Chalapathi Rao and Dasari Narayana Rao.

Also noticed that some other famous Balija Naidu names   like Pawankalyan(actor),Allu Ramalingaiah(actor),Kaikala Sathya  narayana(actor),Allu Aravind(Producer)and AM Rathnam(Producer) figured in the wikipedia articles.I believe all these people can be included in the list of Naidu wikipedia.

65.24.145.57 22:13, 1 April 2007 (UTC)


 * 1) Please remember to sign your messages on Talk pages with four tildes: ~ 


 * 1) If you add these people in the correct places, with the correct formatting (spaces, brackets, etc.) then feel free to do so. Otherwise, I'll do it when I have a moment.  (You might like to start by formatting them on this page, to make sure that you're doing it correctly.) --Mel Etitis  ( Talk ) 22:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Mel Etitis .Thanks again for the suggestion. Again  famous Balija Naidu names  were  removed from the list eventhough their names appeared in wikipedia for reference. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.145.5 (talk) 2007-04-08T02:06:50 (UTC)


 * You seem determined to ignore what I say, but I'll try again:


 * 1) Please remember to sign your messages on Talk pages with four tildes: ~ 
 * 2) Did you link them using square brackets, so that it could be seen that they have articles in Wikipedia? (Did you format the lists correctly, as I explained above?) --Mel Etitis ( Talk ) 08:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Square brackets and 4 tildes were used and  believe that formatting was  done properly   for the new list of candidates. Inspite of this the new list was  removed from Naidu wikipedia. What could be the reason? If still not done properly can you help adding the  list of candidates  that was removed ;who figured in wikipedia.65.24.145.57 04:22, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Signing is for Talk pages, not for articles &mdash; you placed your signature in at least three places in the article. The list was also rather a mess, contained red links, links to redirects, and formatting problems (lack of spaces, capitalisation, etc.); I removed it so that I caould work on it and replace it (which I've now done).  It still needs putting into proper order, though (alphabetical, at least). --Mel Etitis  ( Talk ) 10:57, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Mel Etitis thank you 65.24.145.57 14:39, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

The title Naidu is generally or more prominently used by Kapu caste and its subcastes(Telaga/Balija/Ontari) people in Andhra and Tamilnadu.this articale seems to sidetrack that fact and show a bias towards Kamma/Velama caste..I doubt the nuetrality of this article...Pls refer to The kapu caste page on wikipedia for more info on this —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.89.144 (talk) 01:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Also the statement that In Chennai Naidu title is used by the Reddies is wrong as Reddy itself is not a caste its a title which means village head and there r many su-castes within Reddies who don't intermarry with each other.SO the auther's view to undermine the use of Naidu title wrt Kapus/Telagas/Balijas is clearly evident...for more info u can refer to Reddy caste page here in wikipedia..also pls make sure that the correct facts r presented in this article without shwing any prejudice towards kamma community... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.80.89.144 (talk) 2007-09-16T01:45:47 (UTC)

This site seems hijaked by balijas. Its totally unwarrented. Administrators should involve right now to stop abuse of the information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.243.129.157 (talk) 05:20, 1 July 2009 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

NAIDU TITLE
I FULLY AGREE WITH THE ABOVE STATEMENTS.IT IS AN UNDENYING FACT THAT THE TITLE NAIDU IS PREDOMINENTLY USED BY KAPU CASTE(BALIJA/TELAGA/ONTARI) IN ANDHRA PRADESH,TAMIL NADU,KARNATAKA,ORISSA ,KERALA AND MAHARASHTRA.IN ANDHRA PRADESH KAPU CASTE REPRESENTS 35% OF POPULATION AND USES TERM "NAIDU" NOT ONLY AS TITLE BUT ALSO AS CASTE PROPER. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.136.234 (talk) 19:44, 30 September 2007 (UTC)


 * There seems to be vandalising happening to this article as some kamma's writers started diverting the fact that Naidu is common title beloning to kapu caste which constitute 25% of state population.
 * of Naidu title by Kamma in Rayalaseema is not ruled out but their population is nothing to assert that it is their primary caste title
 * 68.38.78.103 18:30, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * John


 * There is absolutely no doubt that most balija(older generations) of Rayalaseema use Naidu as their honorific title. But, Naidu in general is used by Balaji/Kapu throughout South India. We have to accept that fact that Naidu is a honorific title and not a caste surname. Its not just Kammas, Kapus, Balijas which use this title. There are scores of other communities which use Naidu as honorific title. Now, the point is "Naidu" is "Honorific Title" and is not a caste name. No one can deny this. This is analogous to "Duke" , "Lord" of English people. Now a days most of the communities(while naming present generations) discontinuing using this title.


 * Bottom-line and Fact: "Naidu" and other similar titles like Nayudoo, Nayak etc, "Rao", "Rayudu" are "Honorific Titles". This can’t be said with title "Reddy". Which also "appears" to be a "Honorific Title" as most of the people with such a surname has Family Name too, though very less frequently used by other community members.


 * Conclusion:
 * 1. Not all Naidus are Kapus or Kammas or Balijas and NOT all Kammas, Kapus , Balijas are Naidus. Neither it’s a de facto caste name nor it’s a de facto caste surname.
 * 2. Most Reddys are Rayalaseema Kapus or their descendents . Most(more than 9x% Rayalaseema Kapus use this title) and hence become a de facto caste name/surname. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Indo.gypsy (talk • contribs) 07:45, 10 December 2008 (UTC)


 * Dear John ( assuming that is your real name ), just because some caste is 25% of the population does not mean , historical caste names can be simply subverted. History is history. Naidu may be predominantly used by Kapu's but that does not make them the only caste. In historic times, Kamma's , Velama's  ( Yerran Naidu for e.g. )  and even Yadava's had that title. Just google for matrimonial and you will see many Yadava Naidu's ( these are totally unrelated to Kamma's or Balija's or Kapu's ) . Population % cannot be used to 'assert' a caste Title.  In any case, all titles are disappearing nowadays , so discussions like above are just going to become moot and mere academic discussions . IMHO, any caste that is desperate to claim some superiority by hook or crook usually means inferiority complex.
 * - Krishna C. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ckrishnamoorthy (talk • contribs) 05:42, 20 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Who are the descendents of Kayasthas in Andhra pradesh ?
Is it true that Kayasthas(worshippers of Chitragupta) from North India had migrated to South India along with Buddhist folks  in pursuit of their livelihood during the period of Kakatiya dynasty and seved under Kakatiya rulers ? It appears that one or two  chieftains emerged from them  with the mercy of Kakatiya kings and one of the chieftains was ungrateful  and turned  against   queen Rudrama Devi to usurp the land (  who was promptly  quelled by  the queen ). There are opinions that these folks   adopted    Telugu  culture and evolved into a different caste. Any information about the descendents of  Kayasthas  that so  migrated and their connection to the newly evolved caste in Telugu land ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.24.136.141 (talk) 04:08, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Groupism i.e., Caste origin
The origin of groupism i.e., caste seems to have started with people trying to refer to themselves as one group. There was no divisions and sub divisions until different people started competing for the same resources and had to organize themselves into groups to improve their chances in competing.

Lathead 12:05, 5 October2007 (UTC)

Subdivision origin
Another reason for groupism came from the profession followed by the different groups. As people changed professions, they also had to change names to reflect those professions. However they needed to differentiate themselves from people who were already using those professional names. So as people took up farming they had to call themselves Vellala. However since other groups were using Vellala as title, different groups with additional names were created. Thus were created the various groups of Vellala.

Lathead 9:18, 8 October2007 (UTC)