Talk:Naihanchi

Merge with Tekki series
Naihanchi and Tekki kata series are almost identical - the only difference being their names (Okinawan vs Japanese). As such, these kata belong in the same article. The article should then mention why there are different names, and the minor variations in the kata between various styles. This would make a better article. As is written now, these kata series seem like totally separate entities. --Scott Alter 07:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

TaeKwonDo version
This form is called Cholgui in Taekwondo, can it's Korean name be listed between the Japanese/chinese ones? some video references:


 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T887f39bNXo
 * http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXKgfEXtnV4

It is very well known fact that TKD forms came from Shotokan Karate Katas. Soparamens (talk) 01:11, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Adding Korean material to the article
I noticed that the article focuses on the Japanese aspects of the form(s), but also seems to assume some knowledge of Japanese terminology. For instance, Shodan, Nidan and Sandan to represent the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd form taught. As the forms are also practiced, albeit somewhat differently, by Korean martial-artists, I think it would be an improvement to the article to use more English terminology and to provide references to its wider practice.

The entry in the Tang Soo Do books by Jae Chul Shin gives a very similar history of the forms, but with a few alternatives. It also begins by stating that, like many other forms, the exact creator is unknown, but tradition places the origin with Anko Itosu as learning them from the Chinese (original Chinese name of Naihanchin).

In Hwang Kee's book, he credits Chang Song Kye of Northern Song Dynasty China. I'm not sure of the origin of this "legend" as I am all the other legends concerning this form. I wasn't able to find a reference to Chang Song Kye on the internet from non-Korean sources, but perhaps the transliteration is off and possibly modified by the Korean. There is somewhat of a problem in that there are no independent sources that can verify the forms existence with precise dates before Gichin Funakoshi in 1922 introduced the Naihanchi Hyung to the Japanese as Tekki Kata. Although it was old at that time, the sources of its origin cannot be verified from historical documents. It only exists in oral tradition from before that point. Nearly all sources agree that it existed in Okinawa and possibly had a Chinese source. Jae Chul Shin describes this as developing in Okinawa in the 16th century and practiced in the Naha-te school and later at the Shuri-te school.

I would like to propose incorporating some reference to the Korean practice of the form and adding a little skepticism as to its origin with the "most likely" development in Okinawa perhaps in the 16th century and a "possible" Chinese origin. I have seen some Wu Shu forms that resemble Naihanchi (same stances and similar moves), but I wonder if this was a true origin or a coincidental reverse attribution. We might cite specific sources, but identify them as traditions held by various martial arts systems or masters and not documented facts. From what I understand, the Itosu origin and tradition is oral through martial-arts practitioners who trace the origin of their own style back to Itosu. The Korean authors note and accept the tradition, but don't treat it as fact, calling it a "legend" or "tradition." Gx872op (talk) 18:06, 9 March 2011 (UTC)

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