Talk:Nambiar (Nair Subcaste)

Wondering whether a Nambiar tharavadu/family list should be included.
Should a Nambiar family/tharavadu list be included?. I personally do not know many apart from Vengayil, Kalliat, Kodoth, Kommath and Chenicheri. Hope people can add to it. Also wondering whether a soon(around December) to be Lt.Gen currently Major Gen Vinod Nayanar of the Indian Army, a Nambiar of the Kalliat family is notable enough to be included in the list. B Nambiar 14:49, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I remember that a couple of months back i did add a list of family names, however it got vandalized more than once and so i just decided not to do it anymore.Ok i will do it once more. As for Maj Gen Vinod Nayanar if his mother belonged to the Kalliat family there is no objection in principle to add his name. However the problem is why does he have the Nayanar title then ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.99.165.173 (talk) 14:09, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

That is because his father is from the Chirakkal Nileshwar Raja family. B Nambiar 14:56, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Well to me it still does not make sense father from Nileshwaram kovilakam so a Varma and his mother from Kalliat family so a Nambiar so why does he have a Nayanar title ? I am sure there is something that you might have missed there. Moreover even if he is a Nambiar and he wishes to choose the Nayanar clan name for whatever may be the reason we should respect it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.99.165.173 (talk) 16:47, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

I am not familiar with the Nayanar title but I know of a few Nambiars with that title. I any case Major Gen Vinod Nayanar is still a Nambiar by all definitions.B Nambiar 02:49, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Nayanars is another seperate Nayar sub-clan like the Nambiars in Malabar. I know people belonging to this sub-caste in my home town. If we get something supporting your claim then we can go ahead and re-insert it. As of now we are compelled to understand from his name that he belongs to the Nayanar sub-clan and not the Nambiar sub-clan.So my suggestion is let us try to find out more about Vinod Nayanar and your information that he is a Nambiar till then let us keep temporarily Vinod Nayanar in the shelf so as to avoid potential false info.I hope you would´nt mind this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.99.165.173 (talk) 10:11, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Don't mind except that his mother's family is Nambiar at least, does that not automatically qualify him as a Nambiar or at least worth mentioning in the article?B Nambiar 11:17, 23 October 2007 (UTC)


 * Gen Vinod Nayanar would still be a Nambiar, regardless of his father's subcaste and his title. I think that some Nambiars use their father's surnames, but that should not affect the subcaste of the individual. If someone changed their last name to "Namboothiri" or "Varma" it doesn't make them part of that community. The same reason is given for Capt Lakshmi Sehgal who was a Nair but married a North Indian. However the issue would be a matter of notability. He can be listed on the page if there are enough information and references about him. I am currently trying to clear up names which arent referenced or are not notable (this is an issue because previously List of Nairs page was deleted because people thought that the names were not famous).Malayaliyan 07:31, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Vengayil

Vengayil is a nayanar family. The statement and reference is provided below. Supporting Statement- “The Chirakkal Raja's family owned about 30000 acres; the Vengayil Nayanar family owned over 200000 acres, including forest lands; the Kurumathoor….” Reference- Organized Struggles of Malabar Peasantry, 1934-1940 Prakash Karat Social Scientist, Vol. 5, No. 8 (Mar., 1977), pp. 3-17

Vengayil and Nayanar-Seperate Nayanar page
The relationship between nayanar and nambiar are the same as nambiar and kurup all of them being sub-clans among nayars of malabar that can marry one another.All documentary evidences like the one i have provided before claim vengayil to be nayanar.Moreover there also seem to be a SEPERATE NAYANAR PAGE and so Vengayil K Nayanar, the vengayil family and the vinod nayanar belong in the Nayanar page. Sorry to say this but inspite of me providing documentary evidence pertaining to vengayil-nayanar (Social Scientist, Vol. 5, No. 8 Mar., 1977 pp. 3-17 connection)you have neither produced any document that support vinod nayanar and kalliat connection nor nayanar-nambiar connection,. I am also from malabar and a nambiar myself and so i cannot buy your argument Nayanar and Nambiar are to different sub-clans. Also considering that there is a seperate Nayanar page -Kindly add these eminent personalities in the nayanar page-that is more appropriate thing to do otherwise we will be blamed of hijacking personalities from other sub-clans.LET US RESOLVE THIS ISSUE BASED ON DOCUMENTARY EVIDENCE. please understand and Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.99.165.173 (talk) 15:46, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Any oral or written evidence for a separate origin for Nambiars?
A section regarding origins of Nambiars would improve the article unless irrelevant. The Keralolpathi states Kiriathil Nairs to be descended from warrior Naga tribes from the north who migrated south along the west coast. Is there any other oral or written evidence supporting this or suggesting different origins?. B Nambiar 15:11, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Well we donot have any sources that authentically specify origin if Nambiars per se. The migration from ahikshetra in panchala story is common for all nayars of malabar and bunts of tulunadu as evidenced from kerololpathi as well as its tulu counterpart Grama padhati.Its not specific for Nambiars. Thats the problem and as you might have noticed i have tried to keep the article with as authentic references as possible and as factual as possible. The problem once we start with extrapolated origins is that there will be no end to it and moreover there are no legends for specifically Nambiars.I am sorry but the moment i find one i will definitely put it up. Have u ever read the koodali granthavali ? do you know if it says something ?. I know that a copy of it may be there in the calicut university.That may be one source to check out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.99.165.173 (talk) 16:55, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Ok that is fine. No i have not read Koodali Granthavali though I would like to.B Nambiar 02:56, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Family names-Kindly donot add Thavazhi names
Dear All, whoseover is adding new familynames- Kindly donot add thavazhis as seperate family names. For instance Ayiliath Kuttieri and Ayiliath Keezhadath are only two seperate thavazhis of the same stem Ayiliath. The seperation has been only at the mudal sambandham (property relationships). Therefore ayilyath itself should suffice. Incase you are interested in writing the thavazhi add the thavazhi names within a paranthesis adjacent to the taravadu name.Otherwise the list will become redundant. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.99.165.173 (talk) 10:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)