Talk:Nancy Benoit

Birth Year?
Date Of Birth: May 17, 1963 Woman-Nancy Daus Sullivan Benoit

Is that birth year correct? I've always thought she was born in 1967. (MgTurtle 23:31, 26 March 2007 (UTC)).

Wedding Date
In the article we have her marrying Benoit in 1997, and another section in 2000. Which is it?--Bedford 22:15, 14 May 2007 (UTC)
 * She divorced Kevin Sullivan in 1997. She and Chris were a couple, but did not marry until 2000.

The information from this section doesn't make sense: ''She gave birth to her son Daniel Christopher Benoit on February 23, 2000.[1] Two days later, Nancy married Chris Benoit on November 23, 2000.[1] '' Novemeber 23, 2000 is 9 months later, not two days. I don't want to make a change, since I don't actually know if either date is correct. --Mrs. Grobe 13:52, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Good catch; the prose desc was correct; IMDB has their marriage date as being Feb 25th, so I've changed that. --Thespian 15:10, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

The two days part is wrong according to the source cited for the sentence. It says she married Benoit on November 23, 2000. I'm changing it back because IMDB is considered an un-reliable source as anyone can go in and edit information without sourcing it. If you can find a reliable source with the new wedding day, then change it back. Nikki311 18:07, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

ZZ Top Song
When I was a wee boy, I used to get the WWF Annuals. I remember in one that had a short big dedicated to Woman. It mentioned that the ZZ Top song "Legs" was written about Nancy. Can anyone else verify whether this is truth or just something they put in an obscure book? It would be interesting since Kid Rock covered the song in reference to Stacy Keebler.

Other Children
Jim Ross has stated on the tribute show that Chris and Nancy have surviving Children, David and Meghan Benoit.


 * That is from Benoit's first marriage *I think* Let me research this. SirFozzie 04:21, 26 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yup, the articles at the Boston Globe and elsewhere say that Benoit had two children from a prior relationship. SirFozzie 04:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

I thought the other son was born out of wedlock...could be wrong about that, though Nosleep1234 06:22, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Date of Death
According to this article, she was killed on Saturday.

http://www.wrestlezone.com/article.php?articleid=184838969 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.91.29.74 (talk • contribs)


 * Not a reliable source. Nosleep1234 15:52, 26 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Would the Houston Chronicle be a reliable source? http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/ap/nation/4924043.html
 * Her death is now supposedly to be on Friday, wrists and feet bound, with blood under her head indicating a struggle. Also, in the article, authorities indicate deliberation rather than a case of roid rage. It gives some other details that could be noted in Benoit's article. Kraxxia 15:32, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I have added
I hope we can all agree it is not too soon to do so. Nosleep1234 20:44, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Strange Coincidence
Since Chris's article is now fully protected, and the talk page is being heavily moderated, this is the only other place I could reasonably bring this up. I emailed the details to WWE to see if they could pass it onto the authorities. According to the official timeline of events surrounding this tragedy, the following edit to Chris' entry stating that Nancy had passed on took place EIGHT HOURS before anyone had been alerted that something might be amiss. This may just be a sad and freakish coincidence, but I don't think it's for anyone on wikipedia to decide. I know this falls under Original Research and that's a big no-no, but goodness sake, three people are dead. That alone makes it well worth chasing up, imho.

04:01 25/06/07 Chris Benoit Edited Entry Edwardoka 04:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * It was purely one of the many rumors as to the nature of his family emergency that were flying around at the time. The one I heard was that Nancy had been in a car crash.  My guess is that either someone guessed right, or a vandal was tragically accurate.  Rdfox 76 04:19, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Also note, this was brought up on the Admin noticeboard on Monday, and pretty much discounted over there, after people looked into the IP address and such. Rumors were, as mentioned, flying, and it's hard to keep what's real and what's not separate in the pro-wrestling areas. --Thespian 05:10, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Scary... TaylorLTD 20:26, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * FOX News, however, has now reported it - complete with an interview of a Wikipedian. Rklawton 20:38, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes it was just on fox news. They say Nancy's death was reported here hours before she was discovered! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.188.51.62 (talk • contribs)
 * of course, it *wasn't* actually reported here, someone posted one of about 50 rumours that were flying around, and now Wikipedia is going to need to deal with being lumped in with the unreliable, rumour-spreading sites again. This isn't actually a scoop for us or anything. --Thespian 22:02, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

No "THESPIAN", it was just reported on fox news that there was an update to the site from CHRIS BENOITS HOME TOWN THAT NANCY WAS DEAD 14 HOURS BEFORE POLICE KNEW.
 * No, it wasn't. The IP that the change came from (regardless of what Fox News is reporting) was in Stanford, CT. Benoit was from Montreal, QC, Canada, and Nancy was from Boston, MA. There were a few dozen rumours being posted to the wrestling forums, and someone posted one of them here. The user who posted that had vandalized several other wrestling articles in the past (their very first edit was vandalism to Stacy Keibler). They were, in a word, making shit up, and they happened to guess right, but that doesn't mean it came from any actual knowledge. --Thespian 23:47, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Cited on Foxnews.com
Thios article was cited on Foxnews.com http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,286848,00.html --Bedford 06:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Maiden Name
Nancy was born Nancy Toffoloni. Here is the direct quote from the Daytona Beach News-journalonline.com website. Nancy grew up in Daytona Beach, Florida.

"Jim Daus said he grew up with Nancy Benoit, whose maiden name was Toffoloni -- having graduated one year before her in 1980 from DeLand High School."

Here is the article from which this quote was taken,

http://www.news-journalonline.com/NewsJournalOnline/News/Local/newWEST01062707.htm

Scanadiense 18:13, 27 June 2007 (UTC)


 * And there's nothing in that reference saying she kept her maiden name after her first marriage. Rdfox 76 18:15, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That is already noted in the article. Your source does not provide that she kept her maiden name after her marriage, which it would have to for it to be included in her name in the article. Please refrain from adding it back until you have a source that proves Toffoloni was still part of her name when she died...as what you are doing now is considered vandalism. Nikki311 18:16, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Tell you both what, can we stand down the edit war real quick, while we get a 3rd Opinion on this? I consider it a credit to the article that we haven't had to lock this down like the other one, and I'd like to keep it that way. SirFozzie 18:29, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I've requested the 3O, and we'll wait for it, ok? SirFozzie 18:35, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I should also note that the names from her other previous husbands should also be deleted. All the reports on her death refer to her simply as Nancy Benoit, as do the legal divorce and restraining order papers cited in the article. However, I won't change anything until we get the 3rd opinion. I'll be good. :) Nikki311 18:37, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * If we do remove her names from her other past marriages, we probably should move the entire article to Nancy Benoit and add a redirect there. Rdfox 76 19:52, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That might be a good option, actually. Maybe we should move it to Nancy Benoit, and put in the lead "Nancy Benoit, (Maiden Name, Nancy Toffoloni)?" SirFozzie 20:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'll agree to that. She seems to be better known by Nancy Benoit anyway. Nikki311 20:23, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Whoever does it (and I don't know how, so it won't be me) will have to remove the current redirect at that page, and put in a redirect on this page to it. Rdfox 76 20:26, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. Take a look, please? SirFozzie 20:31, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good to me. Rdfox 76 20:45, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Me too. Nikki311 21:28, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

Fragile X syndrome
I couldn't mention this in the Chris Benoit section since the "edit" must have been taken down for now. I just noticed on the WWE website an article there about that their son might have had Fragile X syndrome, and that maybe the hardships of this could have contributed along with who only knows what else to these murders. Should there be any mention of this if it's true? Maybe if someone who does the Chris Benoit article sees this and thinks that there should be any of this to add? I don't know for sure, just a suggestion about what I saw, thanks!

Mystery person
Anyone know the identity of the person who added her death status 14 hours prior to the authorities finding her body? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.229.81.0 (talk • contribs)
 * Wikipedia has an IP address, and the company that sells them their internet service will know who was on that IP address at that time. But ironically, *because* this person has a history of vandalism, there's actually less reason to believe that they actually knew anything, and identifying people through IP addresses is abhorrent to a lot of what Wikipedia's core values are. --Thespian 00:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Considering that there were two other people that made edits talking about Chris Benoit's death within five minutes of the original death report edit, I don't think this person had any advanced knowledge that wasn't reported somewhere else.

Actually, on tonight's Nancy Grace show on CNN (June 28th), the premature Wikipedia posting regarding her death was discussed. It does seem that the news was posted on Wikipedia before the bodies were discovered by police. The talking heads were speculating that, perhaps, Benoit himself had either posted his wife's death to Wikipedia or he had told someone of her death proir to killing himself. It seems that this is important enough to warrant some mention in the article, although I'm not quite sure what the proper presentation might be. Any thoughts? MegaMom 05:43, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Not possible. The IP address traces to a service provider in the metro New York area, with some service in CT and NJ, and specifically to Stamford, CT. If the talking heads had any interest in actually knowing this, they'd have been able to find it out; even though it does take a very small amount of knowing your way around the technical parts of the internet, it's not hard; the edit came from an IP address, not an account. It took me about 3 minutes to sort through the edit history to find the edit in question. Then I went to an IP address locator (which I found by typing 'where is an ip address?' in Google), typed it in, and was told it was in Stamford. This lines up with the traceroute to the IP address (I do traceroutes using http://network-tools.com/) which identified the ISP, a cable company that I know is in that area.


 * Now, I'm just a web dev, and not a very deep one; I'm graphics and script kiddy stuff. But when I was in Atlanta, I temped for CNN more than once, so I know that if I can do this, and I worked there, they've *certainly* got real staff who could find this out; the whole thing took me about 5 minutes, tops. So either they did it, and then decided to go with the speculation, or they didn't do it, so that they could freely speculate and be able to say honestly that they were unaware that that was (easily) disprovable. Considering the amount of research that I know goes into a regular Nancy Grace show, I actually find it more interesting/suspicious that they would go with a tidbit so easily disproven - but that does make for a great little hook, huh? Duh duh DUH!


 * It really doesn't merit any mention in the article at this time. Everything and its brother (considering the nature of this user's other edits) indictes it was just plain old vandalism that happened to be right. I very much doubt, whatever else Benoit did on Sunday, contacting someone in Connecticut who makes vandal edits on Wikipedia about the asses of other women in wrestling was one of those things. --Thespian 08:27, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Just as a side note, the WWE is based out of Stamford, CT. So I can understand how there would be speculation that this edit came from someone who had prior knowledge, or at least suspicion, of the murder. It doesn't warrant a mention in the article, however, unless it is proven to be something more than vandalism. --Goosedoggy 18:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)


 * Yep. Esp now that, for all the speculation (my favourite was that he had somehow done it himself) the user in question has rather sheepishly apologized, and as Jimbo Wales has said, "writing about what happens on wikipedia in articles is a bad idea in almost all cases." --Thespian 22:22, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I don't get. Who the heck put "Kevin Sullivan killed her."??? I'm like, "What???" There are no still a breakthrough about this case. Should I delete that article??? And who the heck wrote it??? JBC123
 * Absolutely. This is what got the Kevin Sullivan page protected, too. Its vandals and conspiracy theorists, and it is libel, to be removed as soon as it appears. --Thespian 06:52, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm just noticing all the dreadful comments that keep getting added to this article about this poor dead woman. Isn't there some way to stop non-members from editing the page? MegaMom 20:04, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Unfortunately, it's been done; you can't edit the page if you're anonymous, or if your account is only a few days old; you have to been here at least a week or so in order to edit. People are still adding things, though. I'm keeping an eye on it, as are others, to keep the things from staying very long.--Thespian 21:49, 1 July 2007 (UTC)

Hanged or Hung
fyi, for those who prefer hung, I'm afraid you're incorrect. I don't post this to point fingers, it's a very common mistake, but hanged is the correct term for a method of dying, hung is used for pictures. Please move on from this change before it becomes to bakklewheepy. --Thespian 07:59, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

Daniel-Only child?
I know that Chris had two children from his previous marriage but was Daniel Nancy's only child? (MgTurtle 19:53, 9 July 2007 (UTC)).

Obits?
Should the obituaries for Nancy and Daniel be included in the external links? I think they should be if someone can find them. (MgTurtle 23:03, 18 July 2007 (UTC)).

Ring Names
In my twelve years of researching Nancy Benoit's career I have never known of her to be refered to as "Devil Angel.

Most people link the use of this name to when she was in Smokey Mountain Wrestling.

The problem with this being is that I have no record of her ever being in Smokey Mountain Wrestling either. The only possible information I have of her ever being in the organization was in a skit she did with then husband Kevin Sullivan in which she played his shrink.

If it was indeed her in this skit she could only be identified by her waist down. From everything I've been told the shrink in the video was only shown from the waist down and never spoke during the whole video.

I think most people make the mistake of including Nancy in whatever organization Kevin went to —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssw83 (talk • contribs) 03:32, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Ring Debut
Her ring debut was not on July 07th, 1984 as I had originally added to the Wikipedia article.

It is, in fact, on June 30th, 1984 at the Orange Bowl in Miami, Florida. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ssw83 (talk • contribs) 03:38, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Have you got reliable references? -- Flash flash  ;  08:34, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) DumZiBoT (talk) 15:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "Gerweck" :
 * "press conference" :
 * "press conference" :
 * "press conference" :

Cleanup
This article needs it. It reads like a magazine entry or something, not like a encyclopedia. -- Flash flash  ;  08:28, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

Re: "Fallen Angel" source
While "taking the name Fallen Angel, a reference to a song by Led Zeppelin" is sourced to slam.canoe.ca's bio, there is no song by Led Zeppelin about a "fallen angel". If anything, it's a reference to their record label's logo (Swan Song Records), an illustration of Icarus, which is sometimes incorrectly called a depiction of a fallen angel. Unless a better reference can be found, I suggest this be stricken from the article; it's just plain wrong. TheJazzDalek (talk) 01:57, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Removed. TheJazzDalek (talk) 13:00, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

Requested move 17 January 2015

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section. 

The result of the move request was: '''WITHDRAWN BY NOMINATOR. Clearly no support for the move!''' McPhail (talk) 20:45, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Nancy Benoit → Woman (wrestling) – This is the name Benoit performed under during her appearances with ECW and WCW. She never appeared in the public eye as "Nancy Benoit". McPhail (talk) 13:15, 17 January 2015 (UTC)


 * Support as nominator. McPhail (talk) 13:15, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose Due to the circumstances of her death and the coverage that followed, most people will know her as Nancy Benoit. It is also natural disambiguation. Prefall  13:55, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Unambiguous and immovable oppose. The mainstream coverage of her by her real name is far greater and more notable than the coverage of her in ring career ever was. Simply put, she is indeed more known as Nancy Benoit to the generally public, and this is a terriblly myopic nomination that should be withdrawn immediately. oknazevad (talk) 14:36, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I agree entirely with the comment above mine, and will add that the proposed new title is too ambiguous to be the title of a specific person's biography, notwithstanding correctness. 209.211.131.181 (talk) 16:43, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose as one of the most insufficiently disambiguated title and disambiguator combinations I have ever seen proposed ever. The proposed title would make me believe that it was about women in wrestling or a list of women wrestlers. Woman (professional wrestler) may be a possible alternative, but it seems that is still a bit ambiguous, and the current title is the WP:COMMONNAME. Steel1943  (talk) 21:50, 17 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose and close. In ictu oculi (talk) 00:51, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Strong oppose this is not the only "woman" in "wrestling" ; The wrestling personality named "Woman" ala 'the artist formerly known as "Prince"' might work; at any rate, per Oknazevad, she is well known with her actual name -- 65.94.40.137 (talk) 04:33, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose Woman probably would have been her WP:COMMONNAME before June 2007, the intense mainstream coverage following her murder almost exclusively used her real name so that is no longer the case.LM2000 (talk) 06:07, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose. As noted the performance activities in which Nancy Benoit/Woman were employed had nothing to do with the sporting activities of competitive wrestling.  Woman (professional wrestler) is a possible alternative that may warrant consideration.  GregKaye 17:52, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Comment "Woman (professional wrestler)" to me indicates it should be an article about women who are professional wrestlers, not a professional wrestler called "Woman", since it is the most logical choice. A "woman" that is a "professional wrestler" -- 65.94.40.137 (talk) 05:31, 19 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose Woman's wrestling exploits have been dwarfed by Nancy's real-life drama. The 24-hour news channels are more in the "public eye" than ECW or WCW was. InedibleHulk (talk) 22:56, 18 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Unfortunately due to circumstances, she gained more notoriety as a murdered wrestler's wife than what she did in her wrestling career...Joe Blow on the street would remember the Benoit murder-suicide case, but probably not her managing Kevin Sullivan. Vjmlhds (talk) 15:46, 19 January 2015 (UTC)


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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External links modified (February 2018)
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Marriage template
I have to be honest, I've seen the guidelines for this stupid thing thing be enforced and changed so many times. There is no reason to go ahead and try to do this new idea this article really. It just looks dumb and helps nothing.★Trekker (talk) 08:01, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I didn't agree with it at first, but once you get used it more sense. If it's blank and the subject of the article is dead, it's safe to assume the marriage ended by the death of the subject. Davejohnsan (talk) 02:27, 17 February 2018 (UTC)