Talk:Nancy Harrow

Discography
I noticed that a half dozen or more of Harrow's credits were removed or altered. For instance, the Marble Faun and Lost Lady albums, mentioned in the bio text, were taken off the discography; her last several albums were all missing; and a reissue album of Beatles covers was moved to its reissue date (2015) rather than its original release (a Japanese-only release in 1990; see ). I kept a few date and label changes that appeared to be good updates (according to Discogs). Chubbles (talk) 16:19, 12 September 2019 (UTC)


 * Chubbs, have you ever talked to EddieHugh about how to deal with albums that were never released in the U.S. or that were only released in, say, Japan? I know that at times he excluded those albums from discographies, though I understand the difficulties to trying to adhere to a consistent rule. For my part, I sometimes include, sometimes exclude, depending on the circumstance. I want to caution you again about overreacting. Don't generalize. Say exactly where you disagree. I would appreciate that. Please don't say things like "half a dozen or more credits were removed" like I've been clubbing baby seals. I removed half a dozen or more albums? Which ones? Compare what I entered with what exists at your favorite source, which I have followed almost religiously at the insistence of three of you (and there are others). But it's not going to be copy-paste. You have to understand that there is always be an amount of subjectivity in discographies. I've tried to go over this before. I know it makes you angry, so I'm not going to do it. So let's stay out of the clouds of abstraction and generality and look at specifics.

–Vmavanti (talk) 21:08, 12 September 2019 (UTC) –Vmavanti (talk) 01:01, 13 September 2019 (UTC) –Vmavanti (talk) 01:28, 13 September 2019 (UTC) –Vmavanti (talk) 12:47, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * If I recall correctly I removed the John Lewis album from the Leader section because...it's a John Lewis album. Nancy Harrow is the guest. It's his album, not her album. Right? It belongs in the guest section, not the leader section. Second, you have linked the labels on their first occurrence. Good. I have never disagreed with that and have done it many times over the years. But why did you change "Tono" to "Tono Records"? I have also seen Eddie use the American release date when it conflicts with the release dates of other countries. This goes use of labels, too. I have seen many times where editors have used the American release date and American label when there is subjectivity or conflict. Is this what you object to? If you believe I have deleted "six or more" albums from this discography, list them and we will talk about each one. If you don't provide details, there is no way for us to have a discussion, which is what the rules of Wikipedia compel us to do.
 * The John Lewis album sure looks like a collaboration to me; she's on the front cover, is part of the album title, sings on every song, and her name is underlined and in huge letters on the cover. But that issue is six-of-one/half-a-dozen-of-the-other as far as I'm concerned, so if moving it to a guest segment closes the issue, grand. I think per WP:GLOBAL we should make a good-faith effort to include information about foreign-release albums when possible (certainly for studio albums of newly-recorded material), and in this particular case it is possible. "Tono" vs "Tono Records" is again something that I am completely neutral about, so I will adjust this. The discographical overhaul removed all of Harrow's releases after 1994, except for one (excluding the Beatles reissue). There were seven releases affected - The Marble Faun (Harbinger, 1999), The Adventures of Maya the Bee (Harbinger, 2000), The Cat Who Went to Heaven (Artists House, 2005), An Intimate Evening With Nancy Harrow (Benfan, 2010), In the Wee Small Hours (Camerata, 2010), The Song Is All (Benfan, 2016), and Partners (Benfan, 2018). Chubbles (talk) 00:41, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * Where did you get the information about the albums, labels, and dates? As I said, I used your favorite source. So where this time? How can I possibly evaluate information if I don't have a source? Am I supposed to take your word for it? Why? You want me to include information without any source at all? No.
 * The title of the John Lewis album is The John Lewis Album for Nancy Harrow. Does the title suggest to you that it is a John Lewis album given that the first four words are "The John Lewis Album"? It is an odd title given that it says "For Nancy Harrow" rather than "With Nancy Harrow". I can't think of another title like that. While we're on the subject, I've been seeing the word "collaboration" used loosely in Wikipedia, in that typically expansive Wikipedia way in which words colonize and assimilate other meanings. I'm sure you know, but not everyone knows, that appearing on someone's album doesn't automatically make one a collaborator. At what point does someone go from leader to co-leader to sideman to guest to guy who sampled four bars of a song? When we start discussing font size and whose picture is on the cover, we run the risk of falling into pedantic hairsplitting nonsense. Would you answer my questions without sarcasm or irony or exaggeration? I've really had it with that kind of thing. Thanks. The point about "global" I will save until tomorrow, though my position will probably not surprise you.
 * I'm having genuine trouble distinguishing the rhetorical questions from the ones from which answers are expected. When you say you used "my favorite source", do you mean Allmusic or Grove? Chubbles (talk) 01:50, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * That is so effing hilarious, Chubs. You spent years contesting my edits to discographies until you managed to get an admin who was on your side to threaten to block me unless I started using Discogs.com—that was the gist of it. Usually none of my questions are rhetorical. I expect answers to all of them. But of course I don't get them. We are supposed to discuss, hence the name Talk page, but people like you always find clever ways to weasel out of it. You have never had anything but contempt for AllMusic and you know it. I don't know how you expect me to take your responses seriously. But that's another tactic, right? Another way to avoid discussion. It's too bad you can't put that cleverness to better use.

–Vmavanti (talk) 12:59, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * I checked Nancy Harrow's official site, so to answer my own question because you won't, apparently this is where you got your information. Except only two of the albums have release dates. You didn't get the albums from the New Grove books, because those books lack release dates. Despite your contempt for AllMusic, and your battles with me whenever I tried to use it as source, you may have gotten the albums from AllMusic except that AllMusic's discography for Harrow disagrees with what you have entered. So my questions remain unanswered. When you revert an edit, you are supposed to have a good reason and your are supposed to give those reasons rather than send me down the rabbit hole on the Talk page. I consider that a loathsome way to treat someone, and I know I'm not supposed to say that, given your habit of tattling and trying to get me thrown off this site. Bu there it is. At my age, I should not be surprised at what I have learned about human behavior. I prefer face to face communication. I continue to find other forms, especially the internet, inferior by far. My kingdom for a carrier pigeon.

–Vmavanti (talk) 13:04, 13 September 2019 (UTC)
 * One other thing, stop using semicolons to create bold type in headers. You've been told that over and over, you're not supposed to do it, but you don't change. Among other things, the semicolon screws up the screen for those of us who use syntax coloring. That's not me alone. Others have complained, too. Thanks, man, you're a real prince.


 * Does the title suggest to you that it is a John Lewis album given that the first four words are "The John Lewis Album"?
 * Well, we can at least agree on carrier pigeons. Look, I think Discogs is a great place to look for information on albums, but it's not comprehensive. In no way did anyone tell you, or even intimate to you, that Discogs should be the only place you should be looking, nor that anything not in Discogs doesn't exist (or isn't important enough for us to list). It's just one place that's far more comprehensive than many other sites. As you say, we should talk specifics. Are there any other changes you seek to make to the discography on this page as it exists right now? Chubbles (talk) 03:34, 14 September 2019 (UTC)