Talk:Naomi Watts

Recent source on country
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/sunday-magazine/naomi-watts-i-know-who-i-am/story-e6frf039-1226200039425 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.179.29.97 (talk) 11:31, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Her sensibility remains very Aussie, her best friends are from here (“I’d say 95 per cent of them are Australian”), and she wants her sons, four-year-old Alexander (Sasha to his mum and dad) and Samuel (known as Kai), who turns three next month, to grow up aware of the country their mum considers home.

Mistake
The Painted Veil was a collaboration between Chinese and American film makers, not 'an American Japanese drama' as the article states. The sentence is a little confusing as the movie is concerned with British and Chinese relations in China. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.253.167.107 (talk) 13:28, 4 February 2011 (UTC)
 * It has been addressed. Thanks. --Artoasis (talk) 05:53, 17 February 2011 (UTC)

Under the listings of her filmography the movie Ellie Parker is listed under 2000 and 2005. It should be under 2005. I do not know how to delete something in that format without living a blank spot.Mylittlezach (talk) 01:23, 31 August 2012 (UTC)


 * The 2000 film was a short film and the 2005 was a full length film, so the two entries are correct.  Lugnuts  And the horse 07:15, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

"Partner" or husband?
Isn't she married? If so, her spouse should be listed as "spouse" or "husband" rather than simply "partner" as in the current InfoBox. The Mysterious El Willstro (talk) 06:11, 15 July 2011 (UTC)
 * She's not married. You can check the PL section for details.--Gunt50 (talk) 14:58, 10 August 2011 (UTC)

The "d.2005" in the infobox for "partner" confuses me. Normally (in my experience) the "d." indicates death. What is it here? "Dated"? I wonder if there is a clearer way to express the idea, maybe by dropping the "d." completely. -Phoenixrod (talk) 06:48, 15 August 2011 (UTC)


 * No responses, even during a GA review? -Phoenixrod (talk) 04:53, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Watts is Australian and British, what's with the conflict?
See her interview with Sunrise. She claims to be both British AND Australian. When asked where she considers home, she says "Australia". It's coming from her own mouth, so leave it. She's British and she's Australian. Her mother lives in Australia, she considers it home, etc. etc. 101.103.0.98 (talk) 04:25, 9 March 2012 (UTC)


 * She claims to only use a British passport, and no sources have been supplied that support her ever obtaining Australian citizenship. Please supply a third-party citation that supports such citizenship. I can say I'm a Loonie from the Moon, but that doesn't make it so. If she's a British citizen and no sources say she has changed her citizenship, she remains British. Yworo (talk) 04:27, 9 March 2012 (UTC)


 * It does not necessarily refer to citizenship, though. Quoting WP:OPENPARA: "the country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident". She could very well be described as English-Australian as per that. Nymf hideliho! 21:10, 22 March 2012 (UTC)


 * Really. And I thought "country" was singular, not plural. And even if multiple countries were indicated, there would still need to be citation of documentation supporting either "citizen" or "permanent resident" of Australia, the latter being a legal term, and not equivalent to "lived there a long time". Yworo (talk) 20:49, 25 March 2012 (UTC)
 * heh. These comical debates over 'nationality' or 'citizenship' are so typical of wikipedia. I guess that's what happens when you allow the lowest common denominator to dominate. I note that in the reference cited as support for Watts' Englishness she is quoted as saying she is both Ozzie and British (no mention of English). But, laughably, that seems not enough for some wikipedians who are demanding citation of documents, although just what I'm not sure. Really, don't you guys think that you might be taking yourselves a little bit too seriously here? As another editor has pointed out, the guidelines also refer to permanent residency, which Watts no doubt holds, or is entitled to even if she were not a citizen of Oz. But, we are so full of our own self importance that we feel entitled to go against the public utterances of the very subject of this wikipedia article then so be it. Theodore D (talk) 00:02, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

She was born in England, had an English father and lived in England for most of the first thirteen years of her life. By many (most?) objective standards she can be regarded as English, even if she chooses to self-identify as something else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.172.31.70 (talk) 01:04, 31 January 2013 (UTC)


 * Comment I think describing Watts as British-Australian misrepresents the facts. She carries a British passport so fundamentally she is British. I have no objection to including further context i.e. mentioning that she grew up in Australia/being a resident of the United States, but her relationship with those countries needs to be contextualised. When you say someone is British/Australian/American etc that implies the person's nationality to the reader, and there is no evidence she is anything other than a UK national. It would only be acceptable to describe her as British-Australian if she had dual nationality. As for describing her as English (which implies she is a British national so is technically true) I think this would confuse the matter in this particular case since she her cultural identification does not completely match her nationality. Betty Logan (talk) 14:49, 3 July 2014 (UTC)
 * WP:OPENPARA actually says "permanent resident" as well, which she obviously is in Australia. Nymf (talk) 14:52, 3 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I think I'd probably mirror what Betty Logan says: stick to the known facts and report as they are. She carries a British passport and lives in Australia, and that is what we should also say. If she clearly comes out one way or the other, then we can tweak, but if no clear, simple and obvious singluar answer is there, then avoid the issue (and drama) and stick to the basic facts. - SchroCat (talk) 15:10, 3 July 2014 (UTC)


 * WP:OPENPARA says that a person's permament residence can be mentioned, it does not say we should actively mislead readers while doing it though. Saying someone is "Australian" does not imply they are a permanent resident of Australia, it implies they are an Australian national. "Watts is a British actress who lives in Australia" is consistent with the guideline, while "Watts is a British-Australian actress" lends itself to misinterpretation. Betty Logan (talk) 15:12, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

She has both British and Australian nationality. Most people who do only carry one passport. He passport doesn't mean she's exclusively British. 110.149.193.153 (talk) 07:50, 4 July 2014 (UTC)
 * IP, This is an active discussion to reach a consensus about the wording used: do not edit war to your preferred version before that consensus has been reached. - SchroCat (talk) 07:55, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I've requested page protection while the IP editor pushes their POV.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 11:07, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Nationality is a legal concept. We can validate she is British because she was born in England and carries a British passport. To be an Australian national she would have needed to have obtained citizenship, and there is no mention of this. According to this interview she lived in England until she was 14, then lived in Australia for ten years before moving to the United States where she now lives. Australia is basically just some country she lived in for a short period in her life. She has lived in the United States for 20 years—twice as long as her residence in Australia—but no-one is clamoring to call her American. Betty Logan (talk) 13:33, 4 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I assume the fact that she had an Australian grandmother, and holds significant ties to the country (she stated "when people ask where is home, I say Australia"), has a lot to do with it Betty. Ashton 29 (talk) 02:01, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Which is all irrelevant as far as recording somebody's nationality goes. Australian nationality is enshrined in law and it is not determined by self-identification or ties to the country. WP:OPENPARA stipulates that we should record the subject's citizenship/nationality or permanent residency if applicable. Now, as a British passport holder then she is obviously a British citizen, and having lived in the United States for the last twenty years then neither she is a permanent resident of Australia. If there is factual evidence that she has obtained Australian citizenship or that she qualifies as national under Australian law then by all means update the lede with the appropriate sources. Betty Logan (talk) 03:37, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


 * "I assume..." No WP:OR, please.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 10:55, 11 January 2015 (UTC)


 * I have added a new source to the lead that clarifies Watts' relationship with the three countries. In it she states she only has a British passport and lives in the United States, so I propose altering the lead to "[ ... ] is a British expatriot actress resident in the United States" to be consistent with MOS:BLPLEAD, which states that the opening paragraph should include the "country of which the person is a citizen, national or permanent resident". We can factually establish all the details now i.e. she is a British citizen that lives in the United States. It is not necessary to mention Australia at all in the opening sentence since she is not an Australian national, she doesn't live there any more and out of the three countries she spent the shortest time there. What she says to placate her Aussie fanbase is irrelevant since this is an encyclopedia and the article should just stick to the facts. Betty Logan (talk) 07:30, 3 April 2015 (UTC)


 * I think it's significant that she started her acting career in Australia. Australian nationality law isn't that simple, and when Watts arrived there, Australian citizens were legally still British subjects as well. Many British people did not take out Australian citizenship. Former Prime Minister Tony Abbott apparently did not claim Australian citizenship until his 20s.--Jack Upland (talk) 05:55, 3 January 2016 (UTC)
 * Of course it is significant, that is why the article covers it. But what makes her more Australian than American for instance? She lived in Australia for about seven years, and now lives in the United States where she has spent over half her life. Moreover, she didn't become notable until she relocated to the US. The article covers her time in Australia, but it's a bit of stretch to take a 47-year-old actress who was born in another country, retained her citizenship, and only lived in Australia for a few years before permanently relocating to another country and say she is Australian. This is not like Russell Crowe who also moved to Australia fairly young, resides there and has actively sought citizenship. Betty Logan (talk) 09:15, 3 January 2016 (UTC)


 * In other words, if she was unsuccessful she would be an Australian actress.--Jack Upland (talk) 09:56, 5 January 2016 (UTC)
 * If she were unsuccessful she would probably be living on benefits in England. Betty Logan (talk) 11:36, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Golden Globes 2014
Headline: "Aussie green and gold! Naomi Watts dazzles in metallic while Margot Robbie teams her plunging white with emerald accessories as actresses attend Golden Globes" A bunch of other pictures from the Hollywood event. — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 16:58, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
 * http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2538352/Naomi-Watts-dazzles-metallic-Margot-Robbie-teams-plunging-white-emerald-accessories-Aussie-actresses-attend-Golden-Globes.html

Drive-by tagging
What do others think of this edit? It screams of WP:POINT to be (based on the other edits done on this article recently by the same user). I think most of the "unsourced" info in the lead is cited elsewhere (per WP:LEADCITE). and pinged as contributors (esp. Dr B for getting it to GA in the first place). Thanks.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 18:11, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

Agreed, does indeed seem pointy!! And the lead doesn't need sourcing.♦ Dr. Blofeld  18:22, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * I'll have a quick look through it. The lede shouldn't be tagged of course if it doesn't include any unique or contentious claims not already covered in the main body. Betty Logan (talk) 18:25, 28 July 2014 (UTC)


 * Thanks both.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 19:14, 28 July 2014 (UTC)

DOB
An IP is repeatedly changing the year of Watts' birth from 1968 to 1969. I don't know on what basis this change is being made but it is i) unsourced and ii) contradicts the existing source that is used for the date in the article. If there is a legitimate confusion over her date of birth then both dates should be provided and sourced to be consistent with WP:NPOV. I have had a quick google and find no evidence of this other date, but even if there is some factual basis for it changing sourced content without updating the source is disruptive. Betty Logan (talk) 01:51, 6 September 2015 (UTC)


 * Yep, the WP:BURDEN is with the IP address to provide a reliable source, and WP:BLPREMOVE is enough to keep reverting them until they do.  Lugnuts  Dick Laurent is dead 09:18, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

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Nationality
Ive just noticed that the top section says that she is just "English". However in the category section it says she is both "English and Australian". What should we do? Say that she is just "English"? Or "both"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.142.147 (talk) 13:23, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The categories should come out because they are not supported by the article. She is a British citizen who has permanent residency in the United States. Betty Logan (talk) 13:27, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Okay then. Can i take them out then? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.142.147 (talk) 13:46, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The categories are supported by the article. It is quite clear that she was raised in Australia, hence the fact that this article is within the purview of Wikiproject Australia. ---  The Old Jacobite   The '45  17:37, 26 August 2017 (UTC)
 * She lived in Australia for ten years from the age of 14 so I don't accept that qualifies her as an "Australian" actress. She has lived in the United States for longer and has done her most prominent work there but we don't call her an "American" actress. Mel Gibson for example moved to Australia at a younger age and lived there for a longer duration but yet we don't have the cats on his article. I think it is reasonable for her article to be within the purview of Wikiproject Australia because she had residency for a decade and worked in Australian film for a while but I don't see how the cats are supported by the article. She is—at the end of the day—not Australian, either by citizenship or by residence. Betty Logan (talk) 23:04, 26 August 2017 (UTC)


 * We do need to resolve this. We can categorically say she is not Australian either through nationality or permanent residence, even though she did start her career as an actress in Australia, which I think is what is prejudicing the article. These are the questionable categories: Category:20th-century Australian actresses

Category:21st-century Australian actresses

Category:Australian expatriate actresses in the United States

Category:Australian film actresses

Category:Australian film producers

Category:Australian people of Welsh descent

Category:Australian stage actresses

Category:Australian television actresses
 * I agree with the IP in this case in that they should all be removed. If we retain them on the basis that she was a permanent resident of Australia when she started her career we should really add the analagous American catgeories considering she has lived there the longest and the bulk of her career has been undertaken while she is a permanent resident in the US. It is a bit perverse to have her in "Australian expatriate actresses in the United States" when legally she is a British expatriate actress in the United States. Likewise it is equally perverse to have her in "Australian film producers" considering she is a British national and she has only produced while living in the US. The article is semi-protected at the moment to stop the disruption so ideally we need to resolve this before the protection expires. Betty Logan (talk) 07:20, 30 August 2017 (UTC)

I have added references that confirm Watts obtained Australian citizenship in 1982, and therefore should be described as “British-Australian”. BryanGaensler (talk) 01:27, 19 April 2020 (UTC)


 * The source you added Contactmusic.com, states that "Naomi's grandmother was Australian, so in 1982, it was easy for her mother to obtain passports for the family to move to Australia." For a start, the source itself does not seem to be a high quality source. Secondly, its claim that Watts has an Australian passport is directly contradicted by Watts herself who clearly stated in 2015: "I've still got only one passport and that's British". What ContactMusic probably means is that her mother most likely obtained residency visas; however that is not the same as obtaining citizenship. Either way, Watts has been very clear on this: as of 2015 she only has a British passport. Betty Logan (talk) 02:13, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

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Edits changing Watts' nationality from British to English
There have been several edits by and SPA  changing Watts' nationality from British to English in the lead (as seen at, , , , ). Watts has a mixture of Welsh and Australian ancestry on her maternal side (her paternal side is unknown). She was born in Kent, spent her formative years split between England and Wales, her teens in Australia and most of her adult life in the United States. She is obviously not just "English" in terms of ancestry or residency, and since she only has a British passport according to the source in the article her nationality is indisputably British. Betty Logan (talk) 04:16, 22 December 2019 (UTC)

Could a new Intro 1st sentence solve Nationality stress?
Suppose the first sentence in the Intro said, “ … Watts is a British actress who has lived in England, Wales, Australia, and the United States.” Then the international nuances of her fascinating story could continue to play out as they do now in this great article. Is that a useful idea?? As a WP edit-newby, I hesitated to bring it up, but my own gut reaction to reading “British” in the current Intro was, “Oh, that’s interesting. I thought she was Australian.” (Gotta be a lot of fans on the planet with the same misunderstanding. Fixing that kind of issue with NPOV facts re such a notable BLP is a a classic WP improvement to culture.) I read all the relevant Talk discussions before presenting this idea; please forgive me if it is annoying. Thanks for all you all do!! Left Central (talk) 23:40, 1 May 2022 (UTC)


 * If I recall, places in the lead for biographies are limited to current nationality and permanent place of residence (which incidentally is the United States these days for Naomi Watts). We shouldn't pander to the POV pushing (I don't think the editors repeatedly pushing the Australian angle are confused), but we could perhaps add some clarification in the second sentence to clear up genuine confusion by stating she moved to Australia, which is what we do in the third sentence in regards to the United States. Betty Logan (talk) 01:58, 2 May 2022 (UTC)

Well, I think that is such a terrific solution that I worked it over and implemented a way to do it. I used a short declarative sentence for Australia, which makes the third sentence the descriptor set for her Australian career, pre-United States. If this works for people, great; if more work is needed or mine must be Reverted, that will be a good WP learning experience for me. 🌏 Thanks!! Left Central (talk) 15:15, 3 May 2022 (UTC)
 * I have tweaked it slightly to improve the flow. On the whole it's fine. Betty Logan (talk) 02:56, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! Left Central (talk) 05:24, 4 May 2022 (UTC)
 * Welcome to Wikipedia. Have a good time! Betty Logan (talk) 07:52, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

Children, two sons
To clear up any misunderstandings about her two children with Schreiber, she birthed two sons. Here's our content:


 * In 2005, Watts began a relationship with American actor Liev Schreiber. Their first child, son Alexander 'Sasha' Pete, was born in 2007, and their second son, Samuel Kai, was born in 2008.

Confusion arises when one sees images of Samuel Kai, who dresses like a girl, hence some think she is Naomi's daughter. I don't know if (s)he has transitioned or not. One source says this: "13-year-old trans daughter, Kai" We may need better sourcing for that. Without good sourcing, I don't think we should mention this issue in the article.

Here are some other sources that document the identities and names of the two sons (most of which are not good sources): I'm not sure if any of them are good enough to use, especially with the caution we use in our treatment of children here. I am just providing the sources so editors won't get confused, because readers certainly are and try to change the identity from son to daughter. Naomi birthed two sons. That is a fact. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:06, 15 December 2022 (UTC)


 * I generally agree, although if one of the children has transitioned then that will probably need to be incorporated into the article in some way—otherwise we could be dead-naming him/her—but it would require some good quality sourcing. Also, if that were to be the case then the article needs to reflect the facts, not obfuscate them by re-writing history. Betty Logan (talk) 17:42, 15 December 2022 (UTC)
 * Agreed. To me, it comes down to sourcing. If multiple RS have mentioned the matter, it should usually be included. Otherwise, a failure to mention is not the same as re-writing history. It's just a failure to mention what might be dubious information because we don't have enough good sources which confirm the info.
 * As far as LGBTQ and transgender issues, I'm not a member of the community, but that doesn't mean I don't care. I'm a liberal and fully support their rights and choices to love whom they love, identify as they wish, and dress as they desire. I fully support laws that give them the same rights and freedoms as traditional hetero people like myself. Everyone should be respected and loved. Just sayin'. -- Valjean (talk) (PING me) 17:51, 15 December 2022 (UTC)


 * Comment There has been a recent spate of edits making the sex of Watt's sons non-gender specific. This is unhelpful; it contradicts the sources and obfuscates the facts. If Watts' son has transitioned or self-identifies as someone of the opposite sex then we need a source to that effect, in accordance with Wikipedia's sourcing policies. Secondly, if the child has transitioned and either the child or one of the parents' have commented on this, then the article would benefit from incorporating these details as opposed to obfuscating the factual basis of the article. Betty Logan (talk) 23:54, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
 * I was just about to edit it by replacing sons with children, this removes the back and forth. PPjr1977 (talk) 22:36, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Nationality
I added Australian to the Nationality and Citizenship because Watts has spoken openly about calling Australia home, given that most of her family live there. She also gained an Australian Citizenship in 1982, so given that she has dual citizenships, I think it is important to include both countries. Fluffycat345 (talk) 09:05, 1 June 2023 (UTC)


 * Openly describing Australia as her home does not make her Australian. Obtaining Australian citizenship does, so if you have a source for that then we could incorporate that in the article. That said, Watts herself has said she only holds a British passport as recently as 2015, so unless there is a source that corroborates the claim she has Australian citizenship then the article should describe her nationality as British. Her nationality has come up on many occasions in interviews, so given that she considers Australia her "home" it seems very strange to not mention that she has obtained Australian citizenship, if that is indeed the case. Betty Logan (talk) 14:41, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 July 2024
Change reference of her having two sons with Liev Schreiber to having two children. Kai has since come out as a trans girl which is reflected in the personal life section of this article. “Sons” is no longer grammatically correct. 47.156.252.146 (talk) 05:49, 1 July 2024 (UTC)


 * Pictogram voting question.svg Question: Where? ABG (Talk/Report any mistakes here) 06:31, 1 July 2024 (UTC)