Talk:Napoleon (Animal Farm)

Wouldn't it be better to have the Animal_Farm characters on its own page instead of having a unique page for each of them? I think that would make it easier to read and prevent stubs, if e.g. Napoleon_(Animal_Farm) was redirected to Animal_Farm. Just an idea.


 * No thanks

Yoda921 11:48, 9 May 2007 (UTC)Yoda

Is Napoleon a villain?
Napoleon is not a villain from literature. There's no proof of that. If there is proof put it in this article.


 * What? It's obvious that Napoleon is the main villain from Animal Farm

Yoda921 13:01, 15 May 2007 (UTC)Yoda


 * Being a satirical allegory the book does not directly state that Napoleon is a villain to mimic the unreliable narration of the media of the USSR at the time until towards the end when it was so plain and obvious that there was no hiding it. OED defines villain as "The character in a play, novel, etc., whose evil motives or actions form an important element in the plot. Also transferred, esp. in villain of the piece." (1. d) and the Merriam-Webster dictionary defines villain as "a deliberate scoundrel or criminal" (2).
 * 1. In chapter 2, the fifth of the Seven Commandments is given as "no animal shall drink alcohol".
 * 2. In chapter 8, a few days after the Battle of the Windmill, a case of whisky was found by the pigs.
 * 3. Later in chapter 8, Napoleon and Squealer were found to be seriously ill with Squealer clearly having symptoms reminiscent of alcohol overdose and Napoleon reportedly being on the verge of death.
 * 4. Given 2 and 3 the story heavily implies that Napoleon, Squealer and likely many other pigs overdosed on alcohol.
 * 5. Napoleon survived the alcohol overdose mentioned in 4.
 * 6. Later in chapter 8, at midnight, Squealer is found with a ladder, white paint, a paintbrush and a lantern after a loud crash.
 * 7. After the event mentioned in 6, Squealer is shielded by dogs.
 * 8. At the end of chapter 8, the words "to excess" are not remembered though apparently are at the end of the fifth commandment mentioned in 1.
 * 9. In chapter 2, it is mentioned that the seven commandments are written in great white letters.
 * 10. Napoleon is in charge of the pigs and the dogs.
 * 11. Given 1-10, the story heavily implies that Squealer, under the orders of Napoleon, changed the fifth commandment to only mention drinking alcohol in excess, presumably after the pigs took a liking to the alcohol.
 * 12. Given 11, this makes Napoleon disreputable and therefore a scoundrel and, because the action he took to be thought of as disreputable was clearly deliberate, he is a villain according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary.
 * 13. Napoleon is in a novella, a short novel.
 * 14. Napoleon is a major character in animal farm.
 * 15. Napoleon is the leader of Animal Farm in chapter 8 and controls many aspects of the farm.
 * 16. Given 14 and 15 Napoleon's actions clearly can form an important element in the plot
 * 17. Given 12, Napoleon is morally bad.
 * 18. Given 13, 16 and 17, Napoleon is a villain according to the Merriam-Webster dictionary.
 * This shows that in the respective authoritative dictionaries for British English and American English, which covers the nationalities of the author and of the founders of Wikipedia, Napoleon is a villain. This is heavily implied in the book and his actions throughout the book and just the actions mentioned in the article. This means that no change is needed to the article.
 * Sources: https://www.oed.com/search/dictionary/?scope=Entries&q=evil, https://www.oed.com/dictionary/villain_n?tab=meaning_and_use#15584997, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/villain, https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/scoundrel and of course the book which is found easily including at https://ia600905.us.archive.org/25/items/AnimalFarmByGeorgeOrwell/Animal%20Farm%20by%20George%20Orwell.pdf.
 * TL;DR: Animal Farm heavily implies that Napoleon is the main villain through his many actions.
 * Arcchie (talk) 17:19, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

I don't understand what you mean by "not a villain," if you read the book you would understand that Napolean is the villanious dictator that repersents the Russian opressor. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.214.100.165 (talk) 06:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Who cares? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.169.31.252 (talk) 15:33, 29 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Erm, maybe fans of Animal Farm. B*tch. Furthermore of course Napoleon is a villain, it's like saying "Is there any proof that Hitler was evil? --Jupiter Optimus Maximus (talk) 17:09, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

lol. such violency currupts. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.131.234.107 (talk) 23:15, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

To answer the question, you must answer" How is Napoleon not evil? Why not? How is he not?"--2406:3003:2004:2550:3491:22D5:89DE:71E (talk) 08:11, 6 July 2021 (UTC)Italic text--2406:3003:2004:2550:3491:22D5:89DE:71E (talk) 08:11, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Stalin and industrialization
I am pretty sure that Stalin was for industrilization just like Trotsky.

First appearance of Napoleon in Animal Farm.
Just informing everyone that I am going to change the chapter that Napoleon first appeared to be chapter 2 as that is actually when he first appeared, despite being the villain of Animal Farm as the first chapter only mentioned Old Major's speech and didn't mention Napoleon or Snowball. --BanzaiSi (talk) 16:54, 11 March 2023 (UTC)