Talk:Naruto Uzumaki/Archive 1

Taijutsu
I'd like to point out that while the link for Naruto Rendan and Nisen Naruto Rendan point to Taijutsu, those are located in Ninjutsu for some reason. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.111.231.233 (talk • contribs) 01:17, April 26, 2006 (UTC).


 * Sorry I meant to say that the jutsu should be moved from Ninjutsu to Taijutsu because it is very similar to Ura/Omote Renge and Shishi Rendan. While it involves Kage Bunshin, it is a taijutsu use of it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 199.111.231.233 (talk • contribs) 01:45, May 1, 2006.

Bonds
If the bonds that Naruto makes with Team 7 are, as it says, "eternal", then how can they be "unfortunately shattered"?


 * Needs expansion, especially for the Chuunin Exam arc, as well as generally on the whole article. Clean-up is needed was well, especially for grammar and overall editions. -- Hobbeslover 00:31, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Missing Arc
Where is the part where he and jiraiya went to look for tsunade? it was pretty important.Malomeat 18:54, 25 March 2006 (UTC)


 * I am going to be adding that section tomorrow, as tonight I have already done a major overhaul of the Rescue Gaara arc. If you feel that some of this info is written badly or unneeded, feel free to delete some of it and change it to better this article. --GhostStalker 08:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)


 * i did it - kaizen@april 16

Kyūbi Naruto
Image:Kyuubi-Naruto4attack.png - Naruto in his four-tailed Kyūbi-transformation (downsized from article). Throughout the series, Naruto has (unintentionally) loosened the seal that binds the Kyūbi inside him. The Kyūbi, is a malevolent being, ("Like staring into the face of evil itself" as described by Haku), and wishes nothing more than to escape Naruto. But if it ever wishes to escape, Naruto must become critically enraged. Until then, for it's own sake, it assists Naruto in any way possible (an act of both greed and blackmail victism). During Kyūbi Naruto (0 tails) Naruto has enhanced speed and strength, sharp talons and fangs, and an extremely werewolf like face. During Kyūbi Naruto (1 tail) Naruto looks like the 0-tails, except he is surrouneded by a blood-red, flame-like, fox-shaped aura. His three-tailed powers have yet to be discovered. In his fourth state, he is unable to distinguish friend from foe. Also, he can create a black ball of both the Kyūbi's chakra and his blood, which (when eaten) can create a blast from the mouth strong enough to destroy even the Rashomon gates. He can also releases shockwaves from his fists. It can be safely assumed that the Nine-Tailed state does not exist, but is in fact the point when the Kyūbi can escape. Kyūbi Naruto in it's two, four, five, six, seven, and eight-tailed states have yet to be seen.

The above addition isn't very well written, but I'm hesitant to remove the section, especially now that the bijū are more or less the focus of the series. Any opinions? --Pentasyllabic 04:21, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * Just so I let you know, I've removed it from the article until there is a concensus to keep it, and/or until it has been rewritten, as it lowers the quality of the article too much to let it stay, until further notice. But, if I can suggest that we make it a subsection of the Kyūbi part of the Biju-article rathre than here, as it consists of info that is more relevant to info about the Kyūbi, more than Naruto, even though it contains info that is relevant to both. Satanael 12:29, 28 February 2006 (UTC)


 * I've changed the above inline image to a link--fair use images usually should not be displayed on talk pages. &#126;MDD4696 04:05, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Canon crap
whats up with this canon I mean does it really matter if anime has saying its not canon is like taking out Mashi kishimotos work it aint my fault you guys dont have cable or you do its all canon —The preceding unsigned comment was added by tariq12 (talk • contribs) 01:18, April 2, 2006 (UTC).


 * It's just 'cause of stuff not being in manga, which is the thing that always comes out first, and is the original source material that most everything in the anime is supposed to be completely, or almost completely, based off of, which, the filler arcs aren't, therefor people assume it's not canon. I agree with you. Everything, manga, manga-based anime, and filler, I see as canon because Kishimoto Authored it. But, putting that aside, that's why. The Wretched 01:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, no. Kishimoto does NOT write the filler arcs in the anime AT ALL. Observation 18:08, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

two tails has been seen, chapter 277, page 10

Too much
This page is supposed to describe the character of Uzumaki Naruto, not summarize what has been happening thus far in the manga. The Part II section is way too long.


 * I agree. I would've cut the summarizing down myself, but I don't want to read the spoilers... ~MDD4696 20:37, 15 April 2006 (UTC)


 * What it needs is to deal ONLY with Naruto, not what happened to Gaara and whatnot. The talk about the storyline should be very small, then see also an article on the storyline.  Why don't we work on weeding out storyline into a separate article, then give only the basest information as it applies to Naruto. -- KV 18:21, 17 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I reverted to the page to an earlier edit. I hope that's in line with what you meant. SpionKop 05:48, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm sorry, but what evidence is there that says Naruto's summons are stronger after the 2 and a half year skip? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.195.75.144 (talk • contribs) 18:23, April 17, 2006 (UTC).


 * That would be a new topic category, and please sign using four ~'s in a row. -- KV 04:48, 18 April 2006 (UTC)


 * Regardless of how I wrote it or not, you can't just deny me an answer. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 128.195.75.144 (talk • contribs) 23:00, April 20, 2006 (UTC).

SasuNaru
Does that section need to be there? It's speculation and opinion, and I'd contest that the majority of Naruto fans think that they're in love. At most, I think it deserves a trivia bullet, and even then in a more objective manner. The section isn't there since I made a revert, but should it have been there in the first place? SpionKop 05:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)


 * That section probably shouldn't have been there, I agree. A lot of what people see is simply a misperception of various cultural norms which don't apply in North America. 171.72.5.226 16:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

I think there should be a section dealing with the strong relationship between Naruto and Sasuke. I understand that it may be speculation but does this banning of SasuNaru have to go as far as to remove it completely from wikipedia? There was a seperate article about they're relationship that was removed for whatever reason. As a SasuNaru fan, I find it odd that SasuNaru is not even mentioned anywhere on Wikipedia. It is the largest fan group for a particular Naruto pairing and deserves some recognition, despite some fans that are against it and despise the thought of it. It would be like removing the article about Sakura, just because I don't like her. I'm not trying to convince people to start promoting the Sasuke/Naruto pairing, but more as to request recognition for this couple somewhere in Wikipedia if not on there character profiles. --Kakexorxdeath 05:54, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Because Wikipedia is not a place to discuss fan pairings. Unless the pairing is canonical, having a portion of an article about it it would just constitue original research, which is looked down on at Wikipedia. –NeoChaosX (talk | contribs) 00:47, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * NeoChaosX hit the nail on the head. Speculation about fan-favorite pairings will always be OR.  It has no place here. Danny Lilithborne 00:57, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * That article I mentioned, however, wasn't stating "Sasuke and Naruto SHOULD be together because... blahblahblah". It stated how it was one of the largest fan communities within the Naruto fandom.  That article wasn't speculating at all but stating facts.  It still should not have been taken down.--Kakexorxdeath 05:54, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * But then, what help would it offer people who read Wikipedia? There is no real relation to the plot. You can say that they have a strong bond (in a brotherly sense, in my opinion), because I'm sure that will be important. I don't think people need to know what pairing has the largest fanbase. It doesn't help anything in any way. Sumhtun 06:03, 19 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This article has a section relating the actual relationship between the two. The longings of a group of fans are not notable enough to add. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 06:15, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

Kyuubi 4 Tails Naruto
I've had an argument thrown at me that the attack that Naruto launched at Orochimaru in 4 tails mode was in fact the Rasengan. Has anyone who has read this part of the Manga have information that can confirm or counter this statement? It doesn't look like any Rasengan that I have ever seen nor does it appear to resemble what the training was supposed to produce, just going off the picture provided here. Rayfire 07:33, 28 April 2006 (UTC)


 * there is no "proof" i say yes cause the fox trasformation mite have changed the color. -- fourth 22:27, 6 May 2006 (UTC

Filler Arcs
Is there any proof of Naruto's "compatability" with the other genin teams? Is it really necessary to include this info? I was considering removing it, but I felt that I should ask here first. --GhostStalker 11:05, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
Uzumaki Naruto should be moved to Naruto Uzumaki per Manual of Style (Japan-related articles). --Geopgeop 12:54, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Why, exacly? If I'm not mistaken, the English manga uses the Japanese name-order, not the Western one. ～卍 JadziaLover  会話 ~ 投稿 卐～ 13:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, in that case; if Jadzia is right, this should not be moved. &mdash; Nightst a  llion  (?) Seen this already? 10:33, 10 May 2006 (UTC)


 * so you can find it easier i guess.--fourth 12:33, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

8-tails?
do you think that 8-tailed kyubi will ever happen? --fourth 22:33, 6 May 2006 (UTC)


 * no i don't 8 tailed Kyubi will in my opinion never happen.--Geterdone 18:44, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Impssible. They already a nine-tails. The Wretched 02:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Naruto already unleashed a nine-tailed chakra during his fight with Naji, although it's weak and probably isn't even a percent of the Kyuubi's real power.


 * then do you think kyubi's true power will ever be unleashed?--67.191.195.232 19:14, 9 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Sooner or later. And that nine-tailed thing is a misconception. That was merely shaped chakra, not a determination of overall level. Naruto has only reached a four tailed state at the max. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 01:02, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Naruto in Hiragana or Katakana?
I openly admit that I still have a VERY long way to go on my Japanese skills and that my knowledge of Naruto is somewhat lacking, since I've never read the manga and have only recently started to watch the anime. But here's the thing. As far as I have been able to understand, Naruto's name is supposed to be written うずまきナルト (Uzumaki Naruto), meaning Uzumaki in hiragana and Naruto in Katakana. But when he signs the scroll for summoning frogs (episode 54, I think, somewhere near the end), you can clearly see he writes a "to" in hiragana (though with a spiral). So how are you supposed to spell Naruto? Using hiragana or Katakana? Hecko 20:23, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Naruto is written in Katakana. The scene you described is the only one where Naruto was ever written in Hiragana. I have no idea why he wrote it in Hiragana, though... maybe because Hiragana is easier to write in blood then Katakana, or something... ～卍 JadziaLover  会話 ~ 投稿 卐～ 21:16, 8 May 2006 (UTC)


 * This is a shot in the dark, but I'm guessing he uses katakana for informal situations, but since he was basically writing his signature (wouldn't want the toads to contest the validity of the contract based on the alphabet, after all), he used hiragana. SpionKop 04:27, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

What happened to the rest of the trivia?
Perhaps it is my internet connection or something, but it seems like Uzumaki Naruto's page ends after the summary of "Grass Country arc Part 2: Infiltrating Orochimaru's Hideout." Should this page be reverted?

Errors
The misunderstanding of the bunke/souke situation with the Hyuugas is repeated in this article, as well.

Article Size
This article is already 76kb large. The size seems excessive for an anime character when there are articles on countries and so on that have been chided as being large at 49kb. Do we have to detail every single incident of the Naruto plotline? Perhaps it would be better to split that out in a separate article titled "Plot of Naruto" instead of reiterating such points for each Naruto character. yu e ni 16:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well this is the plot as it concerns Naruto, the character. He just happens to be the main character, so most of the action revolves around him. --GhostStalker 20:06, 19 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Oh, I definitely understand that. What I'm suggesting is that we pare the plot discussion down significantly, just hit the highlights of it in this article, and then move a more detailed discussion of it to a separate article. In reading all the other Naruto main character articles, there are a lot of similarities (i.e. with Sakura, Sasuke etc.), which is only natural as they experienced a lot of the same events together. This way, we'll have a shorter character article, and a main article with plotline discussions. -- yu e ni 22:49, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

Orphan dispute
Naruto is listed under orphan several times, but I disagree with this. While he most certainly has no parents present, and it is clearly said he has no parents, that's not the same as having DEAD parents. That has never really been alluded to at all. It wasn't said if they were killed by the Fox, if they were Konoha ninja at all, if they fled, whatever. I know many surmise that the Fourth was his dad, but even that doesn't explain who the mother might be. I'd like to remove it and all references to it, if possible. Tyciol 11:59, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Shorten Article
Yeah, so anyway I think the main article is way too long--it is, as of the time of posting, 77 kb, when it is often recommended that an article be shortened or split up if it exceeds 50. I suggest doing something like the "04:40, 3 June 2006 Sigmasonic X" version of the article. Of course, if this format is followed here, it would have to be applied to every other major character bio. Anyone agree or disagree? Oh, and one more thing: do we really need so many pictures? Sigmasonic X 05:53, 3 June 2006 (UTC)


 * The only reason I think its this long is because we are documenting all of the plot that concerns Naruto. However, since Naruto is the main character of this shonen anime, most of the plot is going to revolve around him. I agree that this article has to shortened, but not by cutting it down that drastically. --GhostStalker 02:22, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * You don't see Goku's article getting this long, and it has an entire section on Goku vs. Superman. The problem is, we're including way to much stuff that really didn't effect Naruto all that much. If the format I used before is not to your liking, how about this:
 * Background
 * Personality (I personally disagree with this having its own section, but whatever)
 * Basic History (I repeat, basic)
 * Rivalry With Sasuke (Focuses on how this developed and the different milestones)
 * Training and Attack Development (In other words, how he gained his attacks. When he achieved the different Kyuubi transformations would be placed here too)
 * Trivia
 * Agree or disagree? Sigmasonic X 17:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Sigmasonic X, I agree with you, and had already made a similar suggestion earlier. I suggest moving all plot discussions to a separate article titled Plot of Naruto or something similar. It seems to me that a similar treatment can be done for other Naruto characters as well so that their character pages can be shortened as well. The pages for all the members of Team Kakashi seem a little too long given their overall significance in the scheme of things. --yu e ni 16:36, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Trivia
Trivia seriously needs to be toned down. The article is big enough as it is. Havok (T/C/c) 12:53, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

I guess you can add that Naruto and Sasuke are actually comparable to Sakuragi and Rukawa from Slam dunk in terms of personality and their rivalry. --Beef noodles 21:57, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * FOR THE LOVE GoD SHORTEN THE ARTICLE- Kara Umi :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.101.143.219 (talk • contribs) 15:55, 12 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Do not re-add the trivia which has been removed, specualtion is not trivia. Havok (T/C/c) 16:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Personal Words
I've noticed an abundance of personal words, such as 'we', in the trivia section. Aren't personal words frowned upon in an encyclopedic article? I know they are in Science Hypotheses. It just seems a bit awkward. -- The Wretched


 * your right it shouldn't b there icnore it or change it is my suggestion.--Geterdone 14:23, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

Naruto's Hidden Past
The Fourth Hokage and Naruto look like they could be father and son (as stated in the article of the Fourth Hokage). Do you think that in time, fans will find out if they really are father and son or not? Just asking.... - sasuke-kun27 18:22, 24 June 2006


 * they will in time, sum already have.

What do you mean some already have? It has not yet been stated whether or not Yondaime and Naruto are related. Blademaster313 22:57, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * My bad i mean some think so.

I heard from someone that naruto and yondaime are one and the same. yondaime used the demon sealing technique and sealed the kyuubi on himself. but instead of dying, he used another jutsu, a reincarnating jutsu and turned into an infant. i guess it makes sense because of some hints in the anime/manga. ("dont see him as a monster but as a hero.." "dont take this personally 4th.."


 * DROP THE DAMN REINCARNATING THEORY!

Second Chūnin Exam
Since Naruto is still a Genin in Part II, he may take the next Chūnin Exam. Could this be speculated on somewhere? The Wretched 03:43, 30 June 2006 (UTC)


 * Speculation is bad, unless there are decent hints that it will actually happen. Case in point, every single speculated biju host. All the speculation is nonsense, since it's fairly clear that they've all been caught. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 03:49, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Naruto's Chakra
I'm not sure if I heard it correct or I just misinterpreted what Jiraiya said on Ep# 056 that the reason why Naruto cannot use much of his own chakra (during his training to master Kuchiyose no Jutsu) is because his own body is using much of it to contain or restrain the Kyubi within Naruto. Do you guys have any idea about this? Does this mean that if the Kyubi is extracted from Naruto, he will then be able to show his real power? There is also something I read on the Naruto part 2 section of this article where Yamato tells Naruto (after accidentally using his four-tailed Kyubi transformation) that using the Kyubi's power may greatly assist them on their quest to rescue Sasuke, he is not using his own power in doing so and his own chakra is his true strength. Any comments or opinions? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.14.194.26 (talk • contribs) 18:37, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * you heard correctly
 * please sign your comments
 * --Geterdone 18:54, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * So you think he'll be able to fight Orochimaru and Sasuke without the Kyubi's help? --Beef noodles 21:22, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Maybe. Wait and see. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 21:58, 5 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I agree with some guy 0830 just wait but personally i think yes.--71.199.154.43 14:18, 6 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I have great confidence in the little dude, but I also think that that would take a miracle (which I don't think really exists because 1. I'm agnostic and 2. Little in Naruto happens by chance). Unless you don't mean fighting them both at the same time and I'm just misinterpreting your statement. The Wretched 02:09, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Of course I didn't mean fighting them at the same time, that would make Sasuke and Orochimaru look weak if they both take on Naruto at once. --Beef noodles 20:06, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

I have another chakra question. In the manga, it appears that Sasuke was able to suppress the Kyubi's chakra from within Naruto. Does this mean that Naruto won't be able to use the Kyubi's power unless Sasuke reverses whatever he did to the Kyubi or is this just a temporary effect? As of the latest chapter, Naruto will be starting his training with Kakashi and Yamato will be assisting them to manage the Kyubi's chakra. Was Yamato aware of the fact that Sasuke has somehow sealed the Kyubi to prevent Naruto from using it's powers? --Beef noodles 23:36, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Repressing is not sealing. He only pushed it back in. There's nothing keeping it from getting out once more, thus Yamato's assistance. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 23:39, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Relationships
Um...yeah, good info, but...I really don't think this section is a good idea. He developed way more than just 4, and even if someone added more, it would make it too long, and everyone would start bitching about it, and yeah. So...what do we do? The Wretched 02:12, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Those are the important ones. There aren't any others worth mentioning. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 05:04, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Although those four are important, what about Sai? He is another character that Naruto has changed through there relationship. There could be an infinite number of people Naruto has changed as well as people who have changed him. The latter would probably be the more interesting. How have Hinata, Neji, Gaara, and Rock Lee affected Naruto rather than vice versa?

Kyūbi's Chakra
In the article, it states that the more tails Naruto's chakra have, the more the Kyūbi's personality and chakra leaks out. It makes sense in some ways, but when Naruto fought with Hyūga Neji during the Chūnin Exam part three, he extracted Chakra with nine tails, yet it is much weaker than during even his one-tail transformation when fighting Uchiha Sasuke. Any suggestions why this ocurred?


 * That's just the chakra taking a shape to resemble the Kyuubi as it did in the fight with Haku. It's different than the tail levels. Nemu 18:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Tail levels are determined by a much thicker shield of chakra, like that pic in Plot of Naruto. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 01:01, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Chakra Types
Why have the Chakra types been removed from each characters profile box? They are a new and distinctive characteristic in the Naruto world and worth note. None of the ones I saw were even speculative, only the affinities that have been officialy reveled were shown. If I dont have an answer in 8 hours or so I'm reverting the page.--Master Shan 10:58, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Because they are mostly speculative. For instance, how on earth do you know what chakra type Shikamaru, Shino, or Kankuro uses? Please do not revert the page. Geg or SG will just change it back to the way it's suppose to be.--67.80.145.64 19:45, 14 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Yes, don't revert the page. If a certain character uses an elemental type of jutsu, that wouldn't necessarily mean he or she has that type of chakra. Take for example, Kakashi, he has used (from what I recall) 3 types of elemental jutsu (earth, water and lightning) and according to Kakashi, there are five basic types of chakra — Fire, Wind, Water, Lightning and Earth, Each person’s chakra tends to be one of these types. Given that Kakashi has used multiple elemental type jutsu, he would only have one type of chakra. --64.14.194.26 03:03, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * But only the Chakra types specificaly attributed to characters in the latest chapter were list, none were speculated. Kakashi said himself he was an electric type. It's confirmed information not speculation, Naruto was listed as Wind because he was PROVEN to be such with the card...no ones assuming Temari is Wind also just because of her techniques. So where does speculation play in?--Master Shan 05:39, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It does no good if only two or three characters have a value for the field. On top of that, chakra types don't make much of a difference in skill. Kakashi is mainly a water-jutsu user, yet has lightning-based chakra. If and when some databook defines every character's chakra type, then we'll bother listing it. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 06:28, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I disagree, if this were the case they wouldnt have been concieved in the first place...but I will respect the majority. Just watch for this to be fleshed out more in recent chapters though, I gurantee it.--Master Shan 20:33, 15 July 2006 (UTC)


 * If and when it becomes a major issue, we'll readd it. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 20:38, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

Vandals
Whoever vandalized this page, (the names Tenks and Osiris were used), they should be reported and banned. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 205.188.117.67 (talk • contribs).


 * How do you ban? I was just looking for a way to report this but I can't find it. The links i click on keep sending me in circles. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.70.248.160 (talk • contribs).


 * WP:AIV – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 04:05, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * That's why I said they should be reported instead of doing it myself; I don't know either. Could someone give us a link or something?


 * Points to last comment. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 04:07, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * That might be the link. I left a message so we'll see i guess. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.70.248.160 (talk • contribs).


 * They're banned now. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 04:22, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Naruto's questions
Naruto in chapter 316 asked about the nature of others Justu and how Kakashi says that every jonin Have over two nature chakras And I wanna know69.211.223.220 05:00, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * O...k... Now try again, only this time make it so we can understand what you're trying to say. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 22:58, 23 July 2006 (UTC)


 * What is it that you want to know? Blademaster313 23:02, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

He's asking how a jonin can have multiple chakra types while someone younger only has one. I think what happens is that a person can have an affinity for one element in particular, but be able to use others as well. Kakashi has an affinity for lightning yet he has been seen using several other types as well. He just trains with an element he doesn't have an affinity for and works on perfecting that as well as his natural chakra. Does that help?

Naruto's bowel problems?
There was someone that added this to the trivia section? Why would anybody want to know about this?


 * Strange as it may be, it is a recurring theme and relevant to the character. Personally, I think they could have done without it. It's not that I mind, but they've gone overboard at least once. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs)


 * This page is starting to turn more into a fan page than a wiki page... Anyway, there were only 2 episodes where Naruto did have bowel problems, the episode where Sasuke and Sakura were introduced, and during the bikochu mission. Should that be considered recurring already?

Let me continue your reasoning there. It's obviously recurring, no matter how disgusting it may be. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 21:25, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Episode 3
 * Chunin exam, forest of death
 * Bikochu arc, twice I might add
 * Episode 192

New picture
I added a new picture, showing Naruto's first stage Kyubi transformation resulting from the chakra mix. I felt this was needed, because there are no pictures of him in his fox-ish form, and the picture fits well with the rest of the article. --.:Debil:. 03:13, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I reverted the picture of Naruto's one tailed Kyūbi transformation back to mine, because the article doesn't talk about the one tailed variant, and it does not fit well with the article. Someguy0830's revision also broke up the flow of the article by putting the picture on the left side. The image was also of low quality. If you want a picture of the one tailed variant, create a new section on Naruto's various forms of transformation, and move all pictures relating to the number of tails he has achieved into that section. Actually, I'm going to make that section now.

New section.
I added a whole new section on Naruto's transformations, if there is another one he's done and you want to add it, feel free, although it is getting long, remember to add a picture and relevant data as to the circumstances surrounding the transformation and how many tails it had. Also use the "*" bullet command to make it fit in. Please do not revert this section or vandalize it, as it is a valid section that took some work and gives important information on when and what he transforms into during the series, and clarifies his states of Kyuubi-ness. --.:Debil:. 09:08, 1 August 2006 (UTC)


 * This transformation section is NOT redundant, because the above paragraph is only talking about Naruto's relationship with the Kyuubi, not the ways in which he transforms. Someguy0830, your edit breaks up the flow of the article by putting a picture on the left side and squishing the text into the middle. This is stupid and I think you need to go read up on where to place pictures in an article. I'm reverting it back and I'd appriciate if you would put something in talk if you want It changed instead of blithely reverting everything. The transformation section contains a lot of information that previous edits do not have. --.:Debil:. 00:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * No it doesn't. You mention the nine-tailed transformation, yet that was in no way a Kyubi-based transformation. Gamabunta provided the chakra for a combo henge. That's it. Furthermore, you only copied the info for the four-tailed state. You also skipped the two and three tailed states. It's redundant because you say nothing more than what has already been said. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 01:25, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I've added the two tailed state and am researching the three tailed state as we speak. And for the last effing time, please stop squishing the text in between two pictures, it's stupid and i'm tired of this edit war. --.:Debil:. 03:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The section isn't needed. The one, two, and three tailed states are basically the same besides the power and number of tails. They are explained enough already. Nemu 03:08, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * What are you talking about? None of the states are even mentioned except the four tailed state without my edit. A picture is shown, but that breaks the flow of the article and shouldn't be there unless it's mentioned in the article. I've spent a lot of time making this section and I just read that part of the manga(Chapter 227 is where naruto turns into his two tailed form). So it's not innacurate and you guys are deleting my section for no reason. --.:Debil:. 03:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Every state is mentioned now. You have no more reason to add your section. And again, your section is redundant because there is little difference between his forms. Also, the images can be left-aligned. You don't complain about the infobox, do you? No, so don't complain about an image. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 03:17, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Stop adding the section. There isn't a noteable difference between 1-3 tails to bother with it. Nemu 04:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section. 

move. --  tariq abjotu  (joturner) 02:28, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Requested move 2
Per WP:RM there should be a 5 day discussion period on this issue. (Unless a concensus is not reached, then it may be extended.) As pointed out in Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Anime_and_manga, the current names for articles about Naruto characters are inconsistent with the names used for other anime characters (Naruto characters use Japanese order for names, while all other anime characters have their name in Western order), as well not following the naming guidelines suggested in WP:MOS-JA. --NeoChaosX 00:33, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Modified nom to get rid of macrons. Hope nobody objects. --NeoChaosX (talk | contribs) 02:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with  ~


 * Oppose, This has been talked about before, and the English Manga uses the Japanese name order, so it should not be moved. Also Uchiha Sasuke, Haruno Sakura, Yamanaka Ino, and many more characters are re-ordered in the dub of the Anime, yet all these are found on Wikipedia as above. --.:Debil:. 00:44, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Support because they should be in the Western order to avoid confusion, as the manual of style indicates. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 01:11, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Note added rest of characters for renaming discussions. --Kunzite 02:09, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Support WP:MOS-JA says that SN-GN is only used with historical figures born before the first year of Meiji (1868). Naruto is neither set in a historical period nor are any of the character born before the Meiji-era. But even with fictional characters born before the Meiji-era, we often use GN-SN. Also, more people are likely to be more failure with the anime then the manga. And finally, WP:Anime own guidelines suggest that character names should be in western order. --TheFarix (Talk) 02:51, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * "But even with fictional characters born before the Meiji-era, we often use GN-SN." - False - We leave it up to the publisher - For instance Rurouni Kenshin uses Japanese order. WhisperToMe 21:28, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Support - it's not something I'm in favor of but it's official WP policy, so I'm gonna go with it. As long as some note is made of the difference between the orders I think it'd be ok. It may lead to more vandalism similar to "Might Guy"/"Maito Gai" though. --Pentasyllabic 04:03, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - Aye, that it may. However, naming conventions are less important than that damn Gai/Guy distinction, so it'll probably be considerably less in comparison. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 04:16, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Support - Although I'm more used to the FN-GN usage of Naruto character names, this is Wikipedia policy. I'll defer to the official policies. Theres probably going to be a bunch of bitching from new users/anons, but I guess we can point them towards WP:MOS-JA. --GhostStalker 20:34, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Support - consistency is key to avoiding confusion. -- Ned Scott 02:10, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose, though I'm probably in the minority here. I understand the rationale for using Western name order, but if I remember correctly almost all written information on the internet uses the Japanese order (whereas it doesn't for most other anime).  I'm using the search engine rationale to justify my opposition (Son Goku is written in the Japanese order, but it's not strictly Chinese.)  --ColourBurst 19:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Son Goku is a pre-meiji literary figure. --Kunzite 23:30, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Sun Wukong is the pre-meiji literary figure (but it doesn't matter because he is not Japanese; Japanese rules don't apply.). Son Goku is not, even though he is heavily influenced by Sun Wukong.  --ColourBurst 01:22, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Umm.. They're two names describing the same literary character:孫悟空（そんごくう、S&#363;n W&#249;k&#333;ng）. I'm not talking about DBZ or contemporary portrayals (though Mayumi Tanaka plays an excellent Son Goku.) I'm talking about 西遊記 written in China in the 1590's (and if my skimming of the ja article is correct, introduced into Japan in 1694.) --Kunzite 02:05, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Oops, I _was_ talking about Son Goku in the dragonball anime, which is a derivative character not pre-Meiji (you can't say the Son Goku in Dragonball is the same as Sun Wukong). I however also think that Son Goku should be merged into Sun Wukong because the Japanese and Chinese versions of the character are the same, and this is just redundant information.  However that is here nor there.  --ColourBurst 02:19, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Support - I always thought this: "If the Sailor Moon characters can use the western way of naming (GN-SN), then why can't the Naruto series do the same?" UPDATE: Got message from Whisper. Still support move, though. --Alexie 19:59, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose - Naruto doesn't take place in Modern-day Japan. Naruto takes place in a fictional world inspired by pre-Meiji Japan. And the English manga has Japanese order, so... WhisperToMe 21:23, 3 August 2006 (UTC)Well
 * Well, I think the keywords are "fictional world inspired by" ... I believe the anime is in western order.  --Kunzite 23:30, 3 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment As pointed out before, the English dub of the anime uses Western order. Considering the anime is just basically the manga with some additional story tossed in, I don't see how either medium takes precedence over the other. --NeoChaosX (talk | contribs) 03:10, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * BIG TIME comment - Do support taking out all of the macrons of the people names, BUT NOT the class rank names. VIZ never uses macrons for people names in Naruto, but it uses them for ninja ranks and attack names in the manga. Also, I believe that the arguments used for many of the keep votes are flimsy (such as Naruto being "the only series with Japanese order" (It's not - Rurouni Kenshin and Samurai Deeper Kyo, anyone?), etc. - So I am sending PMs to people who voted keep explaining why their rationale doesn't work. WhisperToMe 21:34, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The names should all be converted to the style dicatated at WP:MOS-JA i.e. give the popular romanization as the introductory name and include the macronized version name in the parens. I'll go start move requests for those articles.  And why not post those rebuttals here? This is a debate, afterall. --Kunzite 23:30, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * ...can we modify this nomination so that the articles with macrons move to titles without macrons? Can we do it four days into the nom? --NeoChaosX (talk | contribs) 19:38, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * That's seems a minor point, so I doubt anyone would contest it. Furthermore, it would fit with other Japanese articles. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 02:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I've modified all but one of them. The only question is "Choji"....how exactly should it be spelled? I've seen "Chouji" used, but I'm not certain it's the proper Romanization. --NeoChaosX (talk | contribs) 02:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Choji, as spelled in Naruto's description of the Rookie Nine in that one episode. I altered it. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 02:27, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Support - as per WP:MOS-JA and WP:Anime. – Pedantic79(talk) 00:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Oppose - The English manga still utilizes those names, and the manga is the universal source of canon for the Naruto series as a whole. Therefore, the original order should be utilized. Not to mention that the reversed order is confusing and the great majority of Naruto watchers and the like prefer the Japanese order. Sephiroth BCR 03:41, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not to place to determine which of the two official versions is more canonical or more official then the other. To do so would violate Wikipedia's policies of maintaining a neutral point of view. --TheFarix (Talk) 18:22, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Support - based on to WP:MOS-JA. This can't be haphazard. Dekimasu 03:50, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

Naruto is unusual in that almost all material that hits the western world except for a choice few things is not ordered in a western way. Americanized Naruto except for the anime still uses the family name first. —Preceding unsigned comment added by .:Debil:. (talk • contribs)


 * Note to Closing Admin: has been engaged in what can best be described as a "Change the votes" campaign on editors who support the move. --TheFarix (Talk) 22:06, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I do not dispute what TheFarix states - In fact, I did exactly that. And it is acceptable to do that too. What is not acceptable is to force or threaten people to change votes. WhisperToMe 17:39, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * MOS-JA as a rigid policy, I have problems with. Other similar policies like WP:MOS-ZH are bent whenever publications constantly use the other order, Wen Ho Lee is a good example.  Katsuhiro Otomo likewise is spelled SN-GN and most publications use SN-GN for him.  Although this could probably go either way; the anime uses GN-SN and the manga uses SN-GN, however, I tend to rate manga higher in terms of canonity.  My internet searches seem to say that both are used around the same rate on fansites.  --ColourBurst 02:10, 4 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Comment - I'd put this debate on hold and make a question at MOS-JA - Because some people are under the impression that the MOS-JA conventions on people names ALSO apply to fictional characters. From my understanding they do not. WhisperToMe 18:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment Even if they don't, WP:Anime standards say the names should be in Western order, as pointed out by TheFarix. --NeoChaosX (talk | contribs) 18:55, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - In that case, I had no idea that passage existed. Are Wikiprojects allowed to dictate terms like this, though? I think it needs to be an MOS policy. In fact, I would raise this issue with the people who created the MOS. WhisperToMe 23:21, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - Posted a link at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_%28Japan-related_articles%29 - In addition an editor remarked about how he on purpose ordered names at High School! Kimengumi in Japanese order to preserve puns. So I guess the Wikiproject rule doesn't apply... WhisperToMe 02:03, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * There are exceptions to every rule. There are puns in Sailor Moon character names and those names are often used in SN-GN forms by fans.  I really don't see a reason to create another exception for naruto and create another inconsistency amoung the usage of names in the wikipedia.  --Kunzite 03:55, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Comment - See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_%28Japan-related_articles%29/Fictional_characters WhisperToMe 02:05, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * This says nothing about name order. --Kunzite 03:55, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, that discussion has little to do with name order but with how names were to be properly romanized. When the topic of name order did come up, the question was ignored or referred to what was already established by WP:MOS-JA. Also, since the discussion could not reach a consensus, it therefore does not have the affect of a provision in a MOS. And finally, I don't think Wikipedia makes distinctions between what is considered cannon and non-cannon, especially when they are in different mediums. Instead, Wikipedia treats them both as equals in order to establish a NPOV. To insist that the manga be taken as "cannon" when writing articles violates WP:NPOV. --TheFarix (Talk) 14:20, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

For those of you who oppose, I'll tell you why the English anime using Western order is important. Naruto's popularity only began to skyrocket when the anime started airing in 2002; up until then it had just been an average, obscure manga running in Shonen Jump for the past three years to most people. If you ask any Naruto fan, on the web or in real life, how they're getting Naruto, they most likely are watching the anime. It doesn't matter whether the manga is "canonical" or "accurate"; the anime is much more popular, by a very large magnitude. This doesn't change much when Naruto is in English; more people watch TV than read books, so one can easily assume there are more people watching the Naruto anime in English than reading the Naruto manga in English.

Now at Wikipedia, an article is titled according to it's most common name, with certain exceptions. Given ColourBurst's observation that both Western order and Japanese order for Naruto names are equally common with online fans, we now have to take into account the Naruto fans who are only familiar with the English language translations. Again, unless there has been a sudden shift in the North American lifestyle or Cartoon Network's ratings for Naruto have dramatically dropped, there are more English-only fans who are familiar with the anime. Thus, more fans are familiar with the conventions of the English anime, including a Western order for character names. That is why I brought up the fact that the English anime uses Western order; the anime is much more popular and has more influence on the fandom than the manga. --NeoChaosX (talk | contribs) 04:11, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't say that the US Shonen Jump was "obscure" - Naruto is best known on the internet due to fansubbing and scanlation to the point where it was massive. I'm not sure if that influenced VIZ to pick the Japanese naming order for the manga. Many of the people who watch the TV show were people who watched the fansubs back when people released them (and many still release fansubs). WhisperToMe 16:53, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 * How big of a following would you say the fansubs have? I'd be willing to bet that despite the large number of downloads, which likely increased after the series' premiere in the US, there are more still who only know what has occured so far in the US version of the anime. Fact is, the GN-SN ordering is the one most likely to be recognized by English speakers. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 02:00, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Feared by Orochimaru?
On, the trivia section, someone added that Naruto is one of the people that Orochimaru fears due to four-tailed transformation. It's true that Orochimaru mentioned that Naruto in this state, can kill him but it was never shown or mentioned that he actually grew fearful of Naruto. The battle only ended since Orochimaru's host body has 'reached its limit' probably because it has almost been 3 years since he last changed bodies. Had he been occupying a 'fresh' body, the battle might have had a different conclusion. I'm not saying he might have beaten Naruto in his 4-tailed state but he might have stayed anyway and fought Naruto rather than retreating. I request, that part of the trivia section removed. --64.14.194.26 00:56, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * He may not fear him for that specific reason, but he does fear him. I point to his attempt to kill Naruto after his first successful Rasengan for proof of that. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 01:46, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Don't mistake me for a fan of Orochimaru, I don't like him either (but I like Naruto), but when I watched that particular epsiode when Naruto first did the Rasengan, it only seemed that Orochimaru regarded Naruto as a big nuissance rather than a threat if kept alive. Furthermore, if he does truly fear Naruto, why would he confront him at such a critical time (during the grass country arc) when he should be much more concerned in preparing himself for transferring to Sasuke's body? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Beef noodles (talk • contribs).


 * Orochimaru's a strange one, so his actions will be too. However, I have to disagree with the nuisence assessment. He clearly believed that Naruto would cause a lot of problems if he continued to exist beyond that, enough so to warrant ignoring everyone else to try and kill him. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 02:53, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Not to intrude or anything, but this isn't the place to analyze Orochimaru and Naruto. Such analyst should be done elsewhere and then sourced in. Otherwise, it's original research. --TheFarix (Talk) 03:05, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Hm, good point. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 03:12, 6 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, I guess it doesn't really matter. It's just that this wikipage is starting to look like more of a fan page especially the trivia section. --Beef noodles 18:24, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

Back to the original topic. Orochimaru didn't necessarily fear Naruto as an equal, he just recognized a threat to his existence and sought to neutralize it quickly. There was no other threat at the time, and he realized that the blast from 4-tailed Naruto would kill him, so (repeating myself), he sought to neutralize it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shadowhound 89 (talk • contribs).

Jutsu
I just put up some jutsu for naruto uzumaki that he has been stated and it got deleted. do you know why that happened? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kingdom hearts lll (talk • contribs).


 * Because Naruto's never used any of the jutsu you listed? The Jutsu list for individual character articles are meant to list what jutsu a character's used, not every move that's been mentioned in the series. –NeoChaosX (talk | contribs) 20:21, 13 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Additionally, the assertion that "It is stated that naruto can use any jutsu including kekkai genkai while using the nine taied foxes chakra." is utter and complete nonsense. – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 01:39, 14 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Kingdom hearts lll, please stop adding nonsense to the article. --Pentasyllabic 13:13, 15 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Removed a bunch of Jutsu... Sorry, even if it's been stated Naruto can use ANY jutsu while sporting all nine tails, the point is moot: It's also been stated that just the four tails is enough to seriously weaken Naruto's body the same way Tsunade's Genesis Rebirth harms hers. Nine tails would no doubt KILL Naruto. List that fact with the Trivia with a proper source, perhaps. Lankybugger 16:55, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

stats
does any body think we should add stats to the characters,like strength chakra speed on a radar chart.
 * Nope. That would be wandering too much into fancruft. Let's keep that stuff on the fansites. –NeoChaosX (talk | contribs) 17:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)


 * stats will only lead to arguements and uncivil conversations.--Kenshin -Himura 21:11, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

I believe he's talking about the stats from the official guide books. I think they'd be pretty useless and take up even more space. Nemu 21:20, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Trivia sections
Should the trivia sections in the Naruto articles be removed and have the information moved somewhere else in the article? It seems that they are looked down upon. Nemu 01:33, 21 August 2006 (UTC)


 * They're looked down upon just about everywhere, but I think it's better that they're restricted to the character pages. Could probably be trimmed down to "Notes". – Someguy0830 (Talk | contribs) 01:55, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Naruto's Rank
Yeah, is Naruto's rank correct? It says he is still a Genin. And if he is, could someone please explain why to me? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.243.49.222 (talk • contribs).
 * He's hasn't had a chance to retake the exams yet. Nemu 13:48, 27 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Although Naruto is a Ninja capable of fighting on-par with most Jounin and some S-Rank, he hasn't yet actually passed the offical examinations to be a Chuunin or a Jounin. So, on paper he's a Genin but he's capable of fighting on a level much beyond that. 151.151.73.169 13:31, 28 August 2006 (UTC)