Talk:Naruto Uzumaki/Archive 3

Part 2 Section
The part two section of Naruto is divided into New Personality and New Abilities. However, the New abilities section seems to be explaining the plot more than new abilities. Should a separate section for that under the "_______ arc" be added for it? Cherries Jubilee 06:26, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Rank
Even though he is still a Genin, Naruto is far from that level. Shouldn't it be added Genin(although Chunin level in ability or above) be put in the article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.189.67.134 (talk • contribs)
 * No because we're listing their current ranks, not the level at which they fight. // Sasuke  -kun  27  23:43, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

RE: Rank
Even though it's official that Naruto is a Genin indefinately, I don't even know how has Naruto been denied in being promoted to Chunin. Can you tell me what happened that caused Naruto to still be a Genin? joey368 11:26, June 20 2007 (UTC)
 * No Chunin exam yet.Jacce 14:40, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

This is, frankly, ridiculous. There is no need to have a poll every time a dispute breaks out; resolve it with discussion and consensus. Consensus is the core of our community, the element that makes our encyclopedia an encyclopedia and not a democracy. Please consider polite discussion; site your sources, provide diffs. But don't make polls and/or surveys simply for the sake of it. Ask me if you've any questions about my decision to close this debate. Yuser31415 21:36, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Survey/Discussion
There's been a dispute between User:Someguy0830 and me (PL(DB)) about whether the Naruto characters can also shape-shift even though they can use Transform Jutsu, meaning that they can also transform into other objects. To be able to change size and properties (such as transform into a sharp object) is not an illusion or inconsistency as Someguy said and I shall explain why.
 * ''Add  * Support     * Comment   or   * Oppose   on a new line followed by a brief explanation, then sign your opinion using ~

Discussion

 * ''Add any additional comments if needed:

I think that the Naruto characters can transform into basically any object. "Why" you ask? Naruto Uzumaki himself changed into a closed Fuuma Shuriken (which was then able to be opened up) with his Shadow Clone throwing him to Sasuke Uchiha. The problem of weight for Sasuke to throw him at Zabuza was nothing since Naruto's weight was as that of the Fuuma Shurikens'. If it was the actual Naruto as an illusion, do you think that Naruto could still be thrown like that? Also Gamabunta transformed into something that had claws (something he didn't have before) to grip Shukaku so Naruto can wake up Gaara. For more details, see Someguy's talk page for more specifics about the dispute as to the fact that the characters in Naruto can shapeshift. (Such as Oolong and Pu'ar of Dragon Ball, Shippo of InuYasha, Count Dracula, etc.) I really feel the need to add this Category:Fictional characters with the power to shapeshift at the bottom of each character's page as a category because they can shapeshift. PL(DB) 17:29, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Why, why, why are you having another poll? Why not try discussing it first? --Deskana (For Great Justice!)  19:57, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * And by the way, unless you can come up with an external source, what you're polling/discussing is original research and cannot be included in the article. --Deskana (For Great Justice!)  19:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * You can't outargue me so you want to win through a poll? Speculate all you want. The fact remains that it's original research as Deskana stated. No matter what the outcome is, it won't accomplish anything. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 20:05, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm only trying to prove a point here. See my discusiion below. PL(DB) 23:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

So, because they can shapeshift, you think that every character should be put into the associated category? Well, if you're going to categorize everyone for what they can do, you might as well add a bunch of other categories, because I'm sure most Naruto characters can create illusions, heal, manipulate electricity, lift stuff, clone, "teleport", be cursed, and numerous other things if they really want to. In fact, why should we stop there? They can also cook, golf, interview, be a communist and walk around in the nude.

What I hope is recognized as bad examples and sarcasm aside, just because someone can do something doesn't mean they should be put into a category, or else category sections could become longer than the actual article. Now, I don't really care whether or not the Transformation Technique qualifies as shapeshifting or not, but I can think of only a handful of characters who have actually used it, and even then they used it only once and during the start of the series. If you really want to add the category to that handful of characters (in the event that enough people think it's shapeshifting), be my guest, though the ability to be able to is far from unique in the Naruto universe. ~SnapperTo 22:17, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, so I'm guessing some of you guys don't mind then if I add some of those categories then? I'm only trying to point out that the Naruto technique called Transform Jutsu is not an illusion technique. It is a ninjutsu. Naruto was able to change into as small as a Fuuma Shuriken to fit in his knapsack, then be tossed easily to Sasuke by Naruto's clone. I've already shown some external links from www.narutomangareturns.com/ to Someguy0830 as proof. Boss frog Gamabunta transformed with Naruto to a faster animal with claws (Kyubi). But I'm not sure if Naruto threw two little shuriken at those Samurai of Gatou's who were actual Kage Bunshin of Naruto transformed (since it has never been revealed). But yeah, some of those important categories Snapper2 named should be added in the articles (maybe not fictional nudist, etc., unless there is a character like that in Naruto that does that). By the way, I began a discussion before I even made a vote in that survey. The survey above only exist in case consensus needs to be reached. Get it? I'm not trying to be disruptive to prove something, but actually trying to prove to Someguy0830 once and for all, that the Transform Jutsu is not an illusion. It is merely more closer to a real form of something then it is to an illusion. PL(DB) 23:26, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * This doesn't prove anything. This is you using polls to get your way because you can't defend your point. I will remove the categories, because I've made it quite clear, as has Deskana, that your personal interpretation is not acceptable proof. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:30, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Did you even see my proof from Naruto Manga Returns? That is where I'm basing this idea from, Someguy0830. Do you even know what OR is to be exact? PL(DB) 23:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * "An edit counts as original research if it introduces an analysis or synthesis of established facts, ideas, opinions, or arguments in a way that builds a particular case favored by the editor, without attributing that analysis or synthesis to a reputable source." I know what original research is. You clearly do not. You are using this poll in such a way to make your point more valid when you lack the ability to source it. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:36, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * What in the heck are you talkin' about? I did source it. It's the Naruto manga clip. It's canon. Can you at least answer the question? Do you still think that the Transform Jutsu is an illusion and not a real form taking ability? Please don't answer anything to me like "It doesn't matter what I think. It's still original research. Stop bringing up this damn argument," Or something of that nature. PL(DB) 23:42, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I will continue answering you like that until you pay attention. Your argument is "an analysis or synthesis of established facts, ideas, opinions, or arguments" and yet you continue to ignore this fact. I honestly don't know how to put it any clearer, so I'll put it much more bluntly. Stop being dense and listen closely. The manga/anime is the primary source. You are not allowed to interpret the primary source in anything but the most basic of ways. What you are doing is trying to make a point by interpreting the primary source. This is what original research is. Give an external source (not manga scans) to prove your point or let it go. You're only cluttering these pages to get your way, otherwise. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:46, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, why didn't cha say that before then? So you want a site that says that Naruto characters can shapeshift, right? Yet, you still didn't answer my question... PL(DB) 23:53, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Riddle me this: if Naruto turned into a perfect copy of a shuriken, how did Sasuke know that the shuriken was actually Naruto? When Sasuke came into contact with it, he immediately was able to figure out what Naruto's plan was and knew to use one of his own shuriken to help with the illusion. Obviously there was some kind of indication that the shuriken was in fact a human in disguise, which would mean it wasn't a "perfect" transformation. ~SnapperTo 23:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Yes, but it wasn't an illusion either. Gamabunta had actual claws when transformed as a Kyubi, right? The Fuuma Shuriken transformation made Naruto small enough that he had fit inside his own knapsack. How do you answer that? Is it a screw-up by the author or is it intentional? What we don't know for sure is that could he had cut Zabuza if Zabuza hadn't dodged the Naruto-henge-ed Fumma Shuriken? PL(DB) 00:07, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Supposition and heresay will not prove your point. Illusions by their very definition allow for leeway. Give an external and reliable source saying beyond a shadow of a doubt it's shapeshifting or let it go. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:16, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I was under the impression that the Transformation Jutsu was a physical alteration, evidence suggests this, and wording suggests this. It hasn't been stated explicitly, IIRC. Has it ever been called an "illusion"? Could I get a page reference if that's the case so I can look at the kanji? Also, there is no specific evidence that mass is changed. I'm certain that Sasuke is perfectly able to throw the weight of a short, skinny, little 12 year old. That said, putting them into the shapechanger category is woefully pointless, as every Naruto character in existence (except Rock Lee) is able to do this. It'd just clutter up the category pointlessly. –Gunslinger47 04:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Snapper's opinion that the categorization isn't appropriate, since it's not a defining characteristic of the characters, as opposed to e.g. Naruto's duplication category for his trademark Kage Bunshin (iirc there has never been a fight when he didn't use it.) --Pentasyllabic 22:19, 7 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I agree with Gunslinger47 that this transformation jutsu is a physical alteration rather than an illusion. The category is not wrong but it's pointless.Abelin  C A  usesobad  06:46, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Naruto is asian?
Should it be noted that Naruto is an asian character, yet he has blonde hair and blue eyes? Then again that one girl has pink hair...


 * It's anime. It doesn't have to make sense. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:31, 14 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Naruto is supposed to have Japanese facial features. In one of the earlier tankōbon, Kishimoto includes a "realistic" drawing of Naruto.  Varying hair, eye and skin color should generally not be seen as unusual or significant in anime, for reasons touched upon by Someguy above. –Gunslinger47 10:35, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I personally don't think it is necessary to mention that due to the fact that there is not much reason to believe that he would be any other nationality. For example, it is not mentioned that Timmy Turner from Farily Odd Parents or that Danny Phantom was american etc. --69.156.206.48 02:50, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Naruto is not asian, as Naruto takes place in a completely different planet as you can see in Naruto Geography 137.89.251.96 16:11, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Syarasu 02:34, 15 March 2007 (UTC)Syarasu
 * Uh, I've noticed that most anime characters don't even look at all asian, and I think I've heard of them mention THAT IT'S ON EARTH before. I've even heard that overweight princess say something about "speaking american", not earthling. Who can tell if they were ment to be asian anyway, no one ever said that all cartoons have all americans.


 * Most anime charicatures are drawn in an ornate style. I mean "natural" orange hair? Generally, the characters are supposed to be viewed as Japanese though(I guess it's Japan's way of shaping the way for multiracialism?). Except in manga like Dragonball, Zoids, Beet the Vandelbuster, which occur in alternate timelines or universes, or when otherwise stated, like with Panther, from the manga Eyeshield 21 (who is introduced as American). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.194.104.5 (talk) 15:56, 26 April 2007 (UTC).


 * In some animes like naruto, it takes place in another world, but with similar languages like american, japaense, etc. they also have similar technologies--BurningNinja786 20:26, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

New Picture Suggestion
Alright, with Naruto's anime moving into the Naruto II territory it might be time for us to start thinking about updating the picture... and I believe I know the perfect one. For those familiar with the later issues of Naruto, the picture I'm thinking of is the one with the older Naruto and younger Naruto standing in front of a police-lineup style height marker. It'd be useful as a comparison AND to illustrate the differences between part one and two.

I personally think it would be perfect, but unfortunately I don't have the picture on me right now. I'll get an image of it up ASAP, however. Cheers, Lankybugger 18:17, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I believe it Wiki Policy to keep with the youngest relevant picture when dealing with characters. The first introduced picture. Any pictures of him older go ::i believe:: beside the relevant period on the page a.k.a- Lower down by Naruto 2.--129.2.239.251 19:19, 23 January 2007 (UTC) err thats master shan...but i dont feel like sigining in.


 * As far as I'm aware, the policy has only been like that for now due to the absence of Naruto II mateiral in the anime... Regardless, I don't view it as much of a spoiler. There are articles which don't conform to this policy you mention (see Son Goku (Dragon Ball) and pretty much all of the Dragon Ball articles). Besides, anyone who reads the infoboxes for characters like Asuma Sarutobi are going to be in for a pretty nasty shock. Cheers, Lankybugger 19:39, 23 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Dragon Ball is a series English speakers will be fully aware of, as it has aired here already in its entirety. Naruto has barely run through half of its non-filler episodes in English speaking countries. Using the pre-timeskip pic is appropriate for the infobox. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:44, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the idea of changing the picture. It's not very flattering for Naruto. I've been searching for a while and I can't find it, but I was thinking maybe that picture of him after he gets the kiss from Tsunade in Episode 96 might be a good choice. BUt that's just a suggestion, any picture would be better than the one currently posted.


 * The picture I was thinking would be good is located here. Anybody think this one suits better? I like it because it quite nicely contrasts the differences between Naruto at 12 and Naruto at 15. Cheers, Lankybugger 00:18, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

On a similar note, at the end of the RAW for Naruto episode 219 is preview for Shippuden which contains a colour version of the time-skip Naruto that we have at the end of the article. Should we use it? Retlor 11:56, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Well, Lankybugger, i completly agree, but why do you say it's moving into part II? Here in America, i don't think it's very near part II... --Sir pwnage 01:04, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I just saw the new image. It's ok, but Naruto isn't wearing his goggles or forehead protector, so he kinda looks weird.Ziiv 00:51, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Cat:fictional ninja
Could anyone explain why this category was removed from every article? – PeaceNT 16:02, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Adding every Naruto ninja to the Category:fictional ninja would clutter the category. For the most part, the ninja in this series are ninja in name alone, bearing little to no resemblance to traditional interpretations or historical actuality.  In summary, the reason the category keeps getting stripped is because doing so is useless, and actually decreases the usefulness of the category as a whole. –Gunslinger47 16:31, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Fictional ninja is like a "trademark" of many Naruto characters and we should list them in the cat. I don't think it would clutter up the category, there're not so many fictional ninja anyway. Also, my question is why people suddenly removed the cat. Surely if it is really that obviously useless then it shouldn't have stayed there for such a long time before getting removed. – PeaceNT 16:51, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * To quote Category:Naruto characters


 * That's why. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 17:39, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * *ahem* I should have noticed that myself.  Good point. –Gunslinger47 18:08, 26 January 2007 (UTC)


 * We all should have some time ago. Sometime the obvious escapes us until a random passerby catches it. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 18:11, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

It's better to list each character than a category like Category:Naruto characters in Category:Fictional ninja. Why not remove this cat from Category Naruto characters so it would no longer be a subcategory, and then readd the cat to every other articles? – PeaceNT 06:12, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Because it's easier this way. More often than not, people will want something in a similar category, and fictional ninja is something every Naruto character is, thus it being a sub cat is more appropriate. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 07:19, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * 1) It wasn't the easier option in the beginning, you chose the more difficult move by deleting the cat from every article, while just removing it from cat Naruto characters was enough.
 * 2) You've let this category stay in all those articles for some time, I doubt why you worry about other similar categories all of a sudden.
 * 3) Put the two above-mentioned comments aside. The real trouble with this, is that not every single Naruto character is a fictional ninja. Not all summons are ninjas, the Tailed beasts aren't, either (not to mention some other minor characters). Still, they are all listed as Naruto characters, which is certainly correct. Now, I'm simply laying down that having the Naruto characters as a subcategory of cat Fictional ninja could be easier for you, but nine times out of ten this would be considered misleading and inaccurate – PeaceNT 08:11, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * 90% of the time is a grave exaggeration. Every Naruto character with enough significance to warrant their own character page is a ninja.  Are you upset because pages like Tailed beasts and List of Naruto summons are in the Naruto characters category, thus making them sub-sub-pseudo-categories of the fictional ninja category? –Gunslinger47 15:27, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Don't stray from the point. Do you consider tailed beasts, for example, ninjas or not? I demand to remove the this category from Category:Naruto characters for the simple reason that not every Naruto character is a ninja. Summons, tailed beasts, or characters like Tsunami, Tazuna (you name it) maybe insignificant. Not that it mattered. They are Naruto characters nonetheless. Marking every Naruto character as fictional ninja is therefore evidently incorrect, unless you insist that those minor ones are not Naruto characters.


 * And for your question, no, "upset" is an exaggerated word. – PeaceNT 16:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Besides the "upset" word, it seems the answer to my question was "yes". Your issue—your point of contention—is that the list of Naruto summons (and others like it) are in the Naruto characters category, which in turn is a sub-category of fictional ninja, therefor incorrectly (though rather loosely) implying that all summons are ninja. –Gunslinger47 16:57, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Exactly. – PeaceNT 17:09, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * List of Naruto summons and Tailed beasts could just be moved to Category:Naruto since they aren't just about the characters. It would follow suite with the "Land of" articles; while they are mostly a list of characters, they are also informative about the topic in general. It's something to consider. ~SnapperTo 21:33, 27 January 2007 (UTC)


 * Okay, point taken. – PeaceNT 00:45, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

what is that attack?
what was that wind attack naruto used to destroy sasuke Fire Release: Great Fireball Technique and create ripples on the surfaces of the water in episode 131, because it had to be sume kind of jutsu to do all and pulling back the skin on sasukes face. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.3.16.1 (talk) 03:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC).


 * It was no jutsu, merely brute force. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 03:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yep. As Sasuke states, it's pure Chakra. Cheers, Lankybugger 14:57, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Humorously translated in the subs I've seen by ANBU as 'coercion-ness.' Retlor 11:53, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

it was either chakra, brute force, or kyuubi's chakra. pure anger! naruto pissed+kyuubi mode Roar= that he did a roar thing there

making the article shorter
Maybe getting rid of the demon fox section and replaing it with a link to the Tailed beast article because it also has something simillar to this section here. Sam ov the blue sand 03:17, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * That part is important. Focus on the plot summary. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 03:22, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well in that case then Shippuden stuff shouldn't have gotten rid of. Why can't we use my idea, the nine-tailed fox part has all of that stuff so why can't we do it and is there another reason besides " That part is important."? And i'm not trying to fight with you or anything, ok? Sam ov the blue sand 03:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * If anything, the effect it has on Naruto doesn't belong in the beast's article. It does belong here. It doesn't need any more reason. It's an important aspect of his character. – Someguy0830 (T | C) 03:58, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Oh well then now that you've gone into detail about your reasoning, I agree with you. Sam ov the blue sand 04:03, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Great Ball Spiraling Sphere
Shouldn't that be added to Naruto's technique list at the top of the page? Blaxpidey - Feb 4th '07


 * I find it unlikely that he'll ever use it again given the existence of his new Wind Spiraling Sphere. ~SnapperTo 20:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The list in the infobox is for "Signature jutsu/Kekkei genkai". The Ōdama Rasengan is exclusive to Naruto, but it is not signature. –Gunslinger47 21:55, 4 February 2007 (UTC)


 * I dunno, I still think it should be there... its pretty signature. Also, if the Uzumaki Naruto Rendan can be included when it has never been reused after the Chunin Exam, I think the Odama Rasengan can be there as well. -- Ghost  Stalker  (Got a present for ya!) 16:18, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Well i dont think the OR should be put up either...it was likely a one time thing, but I agree you have a point with the naruto Rendan, why the hell IS that up there?--Master Shan 19:46, 8 February 2007 (UTC)


 * He does the combo at least twice in the series, though the second time with a slight variation. When I allowed the Rendan to stay in the list, I was under the impression that I've seen it at least one more time somewhere in the filler, specials or movies.  Either way, go ahead and remove it if you disagree. –Gunslinger47 21:49, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

He used it so it should still be there. User:Ghadden''

He hasn't used it much at all: only a couple times, and besides, it's unstable and only a halfway point between the rasengan and the wind release version. Here's a way to describe it. Imagine that the rasengan is the color red (not like it is that color, but just visualize it) and the wind release version is white. Then the Great Ball version is PINK. Pink is NOT a color. it is a SHADE of red. I think I made my point. (I&#39;MNOTCRAZY 12:37, 12 May 2007 (UTC))
 * Wrong jutsu. They were talking about the large version of the normal rasengan. –Gunslinger47 16:07, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The Odama Rasengan isn't a "half-way" jutsu, its merely a regular Rasengan with much more chakra pumped into it. There's no elemental component to it.  The Wind Release version itself is a half-way version between the normal Rasengan and some completed version that we have not yet seen.  70.254.219.106 15:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Starting Rank
What's this nonsense? Everyone starts as an academy student. Is this starting rank as of the time of the series? Isn't this a bit unessacary? I mean thats information covered in article introduction, second paragraph at the latest.--Master Shan 23:05, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * And upon further inspection most of the older nin have N/A values in this slot anyway, is it really nessacary to say that the rookie nine and co started off as academy students? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Master Shan (talk • contribs) 23:09, 7 February 2007 (UTC).
 * Oh yea...it seems I won this argument...--Master Shan 00:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Congratulations. :-P
 * While I'm commenting here… I believe the intention was "initial rank", as in their rank at the time of their introduction to the series. –Gunslinger47 00:55, 10 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Was he just talking to himself? And because no one answered he thought he won the argument. *runs off to laugh*. Sam ov the blue sand 02:31, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Ummm... yeah I suppose it is pretty obvious.....I mean, don't all ninja start as academy students? --Sir pwnage 01:09, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, when I checked back to view the topic the feild had been removed. So I claimed victory...it was supposed to be a joke...har har.--Master Shan 23:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Forbidden jutsu
I just want to ask this question because i think i missed something in the manga, in chapter 251 jiraiya told naruto to not use this jutsu, what was that jutsu he was talking about?


 * That detail is never revealed. ~SnapperTo 05:29, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

I guess they want you to figure it out......... --Sir pwnage 01:11, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

Please read the manga. It's obvious - Jiraiya doesn't want Naruto to use the Four-tails technique, the one that surrounds Naruto with the demon chakra and gives him 4 tAILS. besides, Jiraiya nearly got killed by it and using it weakens the Kyuubi seal. 64.131.199.65 13:33, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Yeah, because that is so obviously a jutsu. It's got hand seals, an actual name, the one-tailed transformation was given an entry in the databooks, all that jazz. ~SnapperTo 19:31, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

It's "Plot Release: 'That' Jutsu". ^_^ JuJube 08:43, 22 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Ah yes, the ever famous that jutsu. Originally used by the equally famous that guy. Emphasis on the first word of that phrase. You Can&#39;t See Me! 10:51, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Jutsu can mean 'art' or 'technique', either way I'm pretty sure he was talking about Kyuubi's chakra altogetherAvatarofrage 12:03, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

German?
I'm not saying he is, but alot of people I know think he's German or of German ancestry. Most say that Their reason for believing this is that he's blonde, blue-eyed and somewhat hyperactive. I know it's pure speculation, but when you think about it, it kind of makes sence. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Uber Cuber (talk • contribs) 02:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC).
 * I've never heard that one before. Of course, not only does Naruto probably not take place on Earth, but also if it did, we can't add speculation. Sorry. Retlor 02:13, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * See my response regarding the "realistic" Naruto drawing by Kishimoto above: . –Gunslinger47 02:55, 18 February 2007 (UTC)


 * Judging the ethnicity of anime characters based on physicall attributes such as eye or hair color is generally a mistake.--Master Shan 23:22, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

the hair and eye color most likely were for his unique characteristics, probably has nothing to do with his ancestry, but who knows it does not go into detail about Naruto's parents, relatives, and of course ancestry, so he may be German.....HA =0
 * I highly doubt that a character from a Japanese Manga would be made German without it being stated somewhere. Anything unless provided by a stong source would be pure speculation and does not belong here. --67.71.79.125 02:29, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Retlor nailed it. Naruto is not German, nor is he Japanese, nor Eurasian, nor Terrestrial (at least, not from our Terra). Naruto is Konohan, if such a word exists. Germany and Japan do not seem to exist in Naruto's world. You Can&#39;t See Me! 05:10, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Help!
The Naruto Uzumaki article is completly messed up! The infobox has been ruined because some schmuck decided to put in a Naruto Shippuuden picture! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Ghadden (talk • contribs) 21:42, 3 March 2007 (UTC).

Fourth Hokage

 * The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Put The Fourth Hokage is Naruto Uzumaki's father because he is, so put it on —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.106.155.71 (talk • contribs).
 * Prove it. // Decaimiento  Poético  01:11, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

In episode 91 with Tsunade, there is a flashback and it clearly states that this is true. Tsunade, Jiraiya, and the hokages talk and then the kyuubi is sealed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.106.155.71 (talk • contribs).


 * I just re-watched all of episode 91. The episode is 90% flashbacks, all from a time back during Sarutobi's first run as Hokage.  In other words, a very long time before the sealing of the Kyūbi.  You'll have explain yourself further, because I've no idea what you're talking about. –Gunslinger47 01:50, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

........hello —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.106.155.71 (talk • contribs).

Wikipedia is not about Truth; it's about Verifiability. Kishimoto has went to great efforts to avoid any mention on the subject, thus your claim can't be verified. If you've read some published speculation, then please share your sources. Otherwise… –Gunslinger47 01:36, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

I've noticed that people belive that he is naruto's father (some belive his brother), but there isn't anything to prove it, you can have some details about like he was blonde, Jiraiya says he had a personality like naruto, and he didn't want anyone to judge that one kid for what was inside him, but we can't prove it. He probably was his uncle and his parents were left unknown or he was no one related to him, but nobody knows and nobdy has a publicated source for that. Syarasu 02:42, 15 March 2007 (UTC)Syarasu

episode 91 girl.... put a link to episode 91..... then we will talk. but he obviously is. yellow hair, yellow hair, rasengan, rasengan. it is just like what happened to gaara. duh. plus it seems like such a great twist too, so think about it. how do we know the third hokage is asuma's dad. did yo see 91 on youtube? F H cannot be naruto's brother why did you think that. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.106.155.71 (talk • contribs).

The Fourth Hokage is Naruto's Father. The Fourth Hokage's name is Namako Uzumaki. He was the one that named Naruto and sealed the Kyuubi in him. Just like Gaara's Father, the kazekage. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.106.155.71 (talk • contribs).


 * And your proof of this is where? -- Ghost Stalker  (Got a present for ya!) 16:35, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Dude, that was so weak. If you're going to do a "The Fourth is Naruto's daddy", you could at least make debatible points like an Uzumaki name appearing in Gamabunta's scroll or something. 74.167.170.215 14:21, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * I assume that you didn't get that from first-hand knowledge? The other names on the scroll are different the four times we see them, and are almost entirely undecipherable squiggles.  "Uzumaki" is not seen within any of these squiggles.  Either someone is very confused, or they're trolling you. –Gunslinger47 15:31, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * There is evidence that he is related to Naruto in many ways.First look at all the younger shinobi in the series with living parents and family. They all share unique resemblences with there elders. This isn't proof but it is evidence. Plus the creator always and i do mean always has family share unique resemblences. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Greenspirit (talk • contribs)
 * That's circumstantial evidence - it's never been explicitly said that they are related. Until such a connection is officially pointed out, we can't state in the article that Naruto and the Fourth are related. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 22:49, 23 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You have it wrong jiraya says episode 83 directly to Naruto the only thing you have in common with the fourth is your goffiness and blond hair. He'd be well known if fourth hokage's son and it says nowhere in the anime they have realationship. If not full evidence then we can't state this in the article. Blanknothingoknaruto 01:22, 19 April 2007 (UTC) blanknothingoknaruto

Masashi Kishimoto would not put somthing obvious like this in the series.

If the Frouth hokage was Naruto's father, why would he leave his son a demon sealed inside him as a parting gift, when he could of just sealed it in himself and die thus killing the Nine tailed fox? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.30.176.172 (talk • contribs).
 * because the fox can't die and some of the jutsu's he used cant put the seal on himself onlyon some one else

and he intended for naruto to be seen as a hero of the village but they saw him as a monster they disrespected the hokage's final wishes THEY SHALL BURN IN HELL!!!!!!--Jackjohnson15 23:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

Wrong it clearly states in the naruto manga Volume 11 that, "It is true if you die so do I." The demon fox then gives naruto some of his chakra to summon Gamabunta.

true but the people who treated naruto as a monster SHALL BURN IN HELL!!!!


 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

This has far outlived its usefulness. See Portal:Naruto/FAQ. End of discussion. –Gunslinger47 22:55, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Picture
I hate to say this after all of that infobox trouble we just had, but that picture should never have been put there. Not only is it now on the page twice, but we should have a pre-timeskip picture in the infobox, just like we do for every character who was introduced pre-timeskip. Retlor 22:23, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

I think you should change genin to chunin because he is a chunin now. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.199.85.201 (talk • contribs).


 * No he isn't. He's still very much a genin. He was away from Konoha for three years, and hasn't had a chance to take a chunin exam. Retlor 15:39, 7 March 2007 (UTC)


 * Heh. Truth be told, Naruto is fighting at a jōnin level.  However for now, he's stuck at genin rank.  Poor Naruto. :) –Gunslinger47 05:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)


 * he was really away for two and half years and it just shows him after time skip there is absoultely nothing really wrong. Blanknothingoknaruto 01:26, 19 April 2007 (UTC)blanknothingoknaruto


 * The shipuden info, including the very same picture, is at the bottom of the page. The infobox pictures for characters introduced pre-timeskip should have pre-timeskip pictures in them. Retlor 02:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Current Team
From the Hurricane Chronicle's(Shippuuden)episode 5, Kakashi says that he, Naruto, and Sakura are team Kakashi now. So change it please, thanks. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by IRajesh (talk • contribs) 20:01, 16 March 2007 (UTC).


 * The anime's behind the times. The current Current Team is his last known current team. ~SnapperTo 20:04, 16 March 2007 (UTC)


 * So what you are trying to say is, the team on the information is the team from the old series, and will be up there till Shippuuden releases in places outisde of Japan? I know I must be wrong. :| --IRajesh 00:19, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * You are. The manga is further ahead than the anime, and in the manga Naruto's Current Team isn't with Kakashi. ~SnapperTo 02:25, 17 March 2007 (UTC)


 * what about sai and yamato —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.106.155.71 (talk • contribs).


 * What about them? They are members of his current team... -- Ghost Stalker  (Got a present for ya!) 23:58, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

We need to add this
This article has nothing that tells about Naruto's role in Naruto Shippuuden except for "New Personality" and "New Abilities". We need to add this soon! Ghadden 10:08, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
 * If we put in everything he has done, the article would get way too long. Most of the relevent information can be found at Plot of Naruto: Shippūden. Perhaps we should integrate some of it into this article, but certainly not everything he's done. Retlor 22:34, 24 March 2007 (UTC)


 * We don't need another plot summary, but overviewing the events that changed his character might be valuable.
 * Remaining the only genin of the Rookie 9 and Guy's group.
 * Gaara's death.
 * Meeting Sasuke again.
 * Elemental training.
 * His (effectively single-handed) defeat of Kakuzu, an S-Ranked villain.
 * Though Naruto might not be aware of it, Kakashi's thought that Naruto has surpassed him.
 * If any events are overviewed, it should be kept as brief as possible and focus on how they changed Naruto. –Gunslinger47 23:54, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

One small point. After reading Gaara's article there is nothing stated about him being dead and I think that would have been a major developemnt that would have been added. --70.48.111.5 19:19, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

I feel like I should add that Naruto isn't the only genin...Sasuke is still a genin too. And how has that changed his character anyway, it (along with Gaara becoming Kazekage) just made him a little more motivated, and even that not really, because it's still mainly Sasuke...Istillcandream 03:50, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Age
In the 2nd part of the naruto series it is never confirmed that he is 15. if part 1 he is 12 in the begining, which we could say is the begining of the school year, which starts in september. his b day is in october meaning he turns 13 around when the show starts. if we assume the anime takes place in about a year and a half,if not a little more we can say naruto is a little over 13 and a half years old, almost 14 so if you look at his training, 2 more years would be 15, and another half would make him about 16 and a half years old.

71.57.18.162 01:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Or we could use common sense. 13 + 2.5 = 15.5 — Someguy0830 (T | C) 01:58, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

Naruto was 15 when Naruto: Shippuuden started and Orochimaru needs to wait 3 years in between switching bodies. Since Orochimaru tried to switch with Sasuke recently, wouldn't that mean that half a year has passed and Naruto is 16, Neji is 17, Temari is 19, etc.?


 * Firstly, it takes about three years, and there was still a brief gap between when he switched bodies and when Part I ended (in the anime that gap was about 18 years, but in the manga that gap isn't really defined). Second, it was a spur of the moment thing; Orochimaru needed to try to switch bodies or he would have been killed. It would seem likely that if he could have switched bodies under normal circumstances he would have done so immediately, not later on when his body is failing on him. Finally, how are you suggesting half a year has passed? They set out for Sunagakure a few day's after Naruto's return, they go to the Grass country 10 days after doing that, and Naruto begins his couple week training session after that. At most three months has gone by, though that seems to be an overestimate. ~SnapperTo 22:48, 11 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Do the databooks have anything to say on the subject? Retlor 21:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Which subject? His age? If so, a Part II databook hasn't come out yet. ~SnapperTo 23:13, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

Images
This is more... for pictures of each character... but shouldn;t the image at the top of the page, in the profile show Naruto in his "current" apperance ie:Part II? I know it's a miniscule difference, but still... shouldn;t it be up to date, with images of Part II chars at the top, and Part I later? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.152.118.211 (talk) 19:34, 26 April 2007 (UTC).


 * More people are familiar with his Part I appearance, hence the reason why his Part I picture is shown in the infobox. ~SnapperTo 22:57, 26 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Someone changed the image to that of Part II, I changed it back but its appears stuck on Part II image on my computer. Did the best I could do. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheUltimate3 (talk • contribs) 18:08, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

Lift the protection...the article is out of date
We...kind of need to edit the current events from the latest Naruto chapters into the article. With it locked like this, it's impossible to do so. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.189.67.134 (talk) 21:12, 27 April 2007 (UTC).


 * Semi-protection policy
 * Why create an account? –Gunslinger47 23:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Uh, it says only Administrators can edit now. It's fully protected, not semi-protected.


 * "Editing of this article by unregistered or newly registered users is currently disabled. If you are prevented from editing this article, and you wish to make a change, please discuss changes on the talk page, request unprotection, log in, or create an account."
 * You would be mistaken. Regardless, it has been noted already. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 00:24, 28 April 2007 (UTC)

Naruto deceased?
In the fourth movie..Naruto is claimed dead, even though it may not be true, so perhaps a (presumed dead) or (presumed deceased) in the movie should be added. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.68.224.247 (talk) 19:40, 29 April 2007 (UTC).


 * You mean the Naruto: Shippūden the Movie page? It would be more appropriate to discuss it on its talk page.  That said, the page itself we don't say he dies.  It "quotes" the advertisements, and then says that Naruto is "presumably killed".
 * By the way, the movie almost certainly exists outside of the main continuity. Meaning none of its events will affect the main story. –Gunslinger47 19:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

deletion
ok some one deleted an entire section for no damn reason why? it was a bout the fourth hokage --Jackjohnson15 23:06, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Portal:Naruto/FAQ. ~SnapperTo 23:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The sub-thread had strayed off topic. The topic being the improvement of the Naruto Uzumaki page.  Please read your talk page, which you can find here: User talk:Jackjohnson15.  For more information regarding appropriate usage of talk pages, please see the Talk page guidelines. –Gunslinger47 04:34, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Dead or Alive?
Umm shouldnt we put possibly deceased next to his age?(Click Naruto: Shippūden the Movie Trailer for reasons.) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.185.163.37 (talk) 23:00, 6 May 2007 (UTC).


 * No, click Naruto: Shippūden the Movie for reasons. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 23:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

lol ya sorri24.185.163.37 00:39, 7 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Well, I doubt very much that he'd die permanently. It's more likely to be a sort of "Oh no! He died! We have to revive him! Yay! Happy ending!" sort of thing.  You Can't See Me!  03:24, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Also the movies aren't generally considered as canon, like the filler episodes. Avatarofrage 12:12, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

And the Part II entry is gone...why?
Why is the Part II entry gone and replaced by (a pretty much needless) entry on his battle record? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 138.88.64.132 (talk) 10:40, 9 May 2007 (UTC).
 * I think there is a move to delete anything plot related from character pages, and move it all to the plot of Naruto pages. Retlor 15:01, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You would be correct in that assumption, sir. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 15:32, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * And the battle section in the article is needed then...why? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheUltimate3 (talk • contribs) 21:08, 9 May 2007 (UTC).
 * I just thought that the battle record would be a nice touch, since the record of his battles in plot context had dissappeared. I'm not all that attatched to it, so delete it if you wish.  You Can't See Me!  22:28, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Can we at least attempt to add order back to the thread. At the moment its kind of...awkward. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheUltimate3 (talk • contribs) 20:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

Reinstating the old format
The one before May 9th. No offense to you, You Can't See Me! but the article now seems a little...well awkward.


 * None taken. How is it awkward, though? It seems to flow more without excessive plot summary cluttering the article up, IMO.  You Can't See Me!  22:33, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 * While I'll admit, I like the "less is more" approuch with the plot summeries, I just think it should (somewhat like the Less is More ideals) in regards to Part II, and then split the Abilities accordingly. For example: Great Ball Rasengan would be in the Part II abilities, while Standard Rasengan stays in the Part I section. Or hell we could even figure out a way to blend the parts into the two.
 * I see. Let's try to get more opinions on the matter by taking the discussion here, where more people can see it.  You Can't See Me!  01:39, 11 May 2007 (UTC)


 * The abilities section doesn't need to be split. It's more logical to have a natural set of progression from one stage to another. Splitting say Naruto's development of the Spiraling Sphere from one section to another forces the reader to refer back to the Part I explanation, rather than reading the complete development. In this case, it flows better. Yes, perhaps the length is somewhat irritating, but Naruto has the greatest amount of development in this regard for any character in the series. Sephiroth BCR 02:03, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Then we should in return have a more complete, organized article on Naruto from Graduation to whereever it is now. That would require (I think) talking about Graduation, Team 7, Land of the Waves, Chunnin Exams, Minor Training with Jiraya, 2nd half of the Exams, Sunagakure/Otogakure attack of Konoha, Sauske's defection, start of Part II, the whole Ichibi thing, Sai and Yamato introduction and the almost immiedient transaction to the Four tailed Fox, I could go on and on because I know I missed stuff. Regardless I will take you by what you said Sephiroth, in that Naruto does have a large amount of growth...the problem now is to how to essentially cliff-note it.


 * That is all plot stuff. Most of that is already on the episode list, all of it is on the plot articles, and almost none of it pertains to Naruto's character. The focus of a character article should be on the character's background, personality, and style, not so much on his or her actions. Have a look at this.  You Can't See Me!  03:20, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * You are right, so instead of adding in said plot stuff, how about we simply add how certain things effected his personality or skills. For example: We can say "His battle with Orochimaru caused him to go all four-tailed and since the Fox has grown almost uncontrolable, yada yada yada" something like that in the Naruto and the Demon Fox section or something.
 * I know that the new format is all good and stuff, but it leaves out all the plot of Part I and causes confusion to Naruto's disposition in both parts. I suggest we either make a compromise page, or split it into Part I and Part II, as right now, we are really leaving way too much out User:yalens

21:23, 11 May 2007
 * Then what we have to do is instead of adding several thousand bytes of plot (because thats what Plot articles are for) we would have to some how relate it to his abilities or is techniques or something. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheUltimate3 (talk • contribs) 09:44, 12 May 2007 (UTC).
 * Right now, it is pretty non-informative, does not tell much about his history or place in the story, confuses Parts I and II and does not show effects on his personality by events in the story line (for example, the Wave Country mission, in which Haku and Zabuza dies, is the basis formation of his idealogy and morals) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Yalens (talk • contribs) 16:36, 13 May 2007 (UTC). ;

WTF?!?!
24.185.163.37 19:58, 11 May 2007 (UTC)umm wat happened to all the info on naruto's expiriences and journeys?!?!?!
 * Those took up useless space actually. I do plan on finding a way how certain events help change Naruto's character but thats about it. Refer to the Plot of Part I and Shippuden. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TheUltimate3 (talk • contribs) 20:52, 11 May 2007 (UTC).
 * Wow this article sucks now, it should go back to the way it was before, and either way you should have discussed it with others before completely trashing it.--67.174.128.249 01:00, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * If you want an in-universe biography of the character, go to a fan site. NeoChaosX (talk, walk) 01:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Firstly, the article in it's previous form almost certainly violated Wikipedia's policy on indiscriminate information. Secondly, the matter has been under discussion over on the main Naruto page for about a week before anything was done. Thirdly, the page as it is now is just fine.Retlor 01:17, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well I never saw anything and no, the article isn't fine as it is now, it's crap.--67.174.128.249 01:20, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Crap it may be, but it completes its goal. It tells about Naruto, not the wonderful adventure he has been on. It tells about Naruto, and his skills.
 * Even though I agree that I preferred the old article better, this one is better suited for Wikipedia's standards. ArchKnight47 04:49, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

ARgghhh!!! This one states in Shippuden Naruto can do the Spiraling Sphere one-handed again! He's never shown he can do it one-handed ever! There's no proof anywhere! Stop saying that he can do it one-handed!


 * Image:Kyuubi Naruto2.jpg. –Gunslinger47 02:35, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

That doesn't count because he had the Kyubi chakra shell to help form it. Other than that one instance, Naruto has never ever shown to do a Spiraling Sphere one-handed. Even if he can, the manga has never shown it so you can't put that.


 * Watch the extended trailer for the Naruto: Shippuden movie.  You Can '  t See Me!  22:27, 25 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Why doesn't that count?
 * Does episode 13 of Shippūden count? Around time index 17:30, I see Rasengen, but I neither see nor hear any Naruto shadow clones. (chapter 258) –Gunslinger47 22:53, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Just because they show Naruto with a Spiraling Sphere in his hand, it doesn't mean he can do it one-handed. It just means they didn't show him making it. I'm not saying its impossible that he can do it one-handed, maybe he can, but until they actually show him form a Spiraling Sphere one-handed, not just appear with one clone-less, you can't say he can do it. That's not solid evidence. As for the Kyubi shell thing, that doesn't count because its the same concept as the clones giving him extra hands, only instead of hands he uses the Kyubi shell to form it. He's only done this once, it was sort of special circumstance, and if he did try to do it again he would need Kyubi chakra help which he is currently trying to avoid using. I won't even adress the movie point because trailers always exaggerate, and plus the movies are not canon.
 * Look. He can do it with one hand with the aid of the Nine-Tailed Fox. That counts because he can do it. There's no rule that states "If you use the assistance of a demon, then your moves don't count!"  You Can '  t See Me!  06:12, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

But in the article its stated as he can do it one-handed in part-two. Using the Kyubi shell is the equivalent of not using one hand! His skills alone, he can't do it. You should take that out, and add to the Kyubi section something saying he can use the Kyubi shield to form a Rasengan.


 * Look here or at Shippūden episode 14. There's no clone to form the technique. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:38, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Where in that did you see him "FORMING" the Spiraling Sphere? Sure, there is a chance that Naruto made that Spiraling Sphere one-handed while kakashi was distracting Itachi, there's also just as much chance that he formed it with a clone. Hell there's just aas much chance that he pulled a magical wallet out of his pocket that formed the Spiraling Sphere for him while Pakkun pooped in his pocket. You don't see it, so you don't know. You can;t assume, so it shouldn't be in the article. (By the way, yes, that sarcasm was totally neccesary).


 * So what if he uses the Nine Tails' shield to form the sphere. That does not detract from the fact that he forms it with one hand.  You Can '  t See Me!  06:46, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * Enough. This is ridiculous. If anything, he formed it with one hand in his one-tailed demon fox form. As his demon fox powers are part of his overall powers, it is therefore fine to say that he can form a Spiraling Sphere with one hand. The method is irrelevant - the fact that he can do so is what matters. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:52, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

But that's not one-handed! One handed means he uses his own chakra-control to form it. Using the Kyubi chakra is not at all one-handed. I know that it looks like it because he's only SHOWING one hand, but you have to imagine that there is an outside force forming the sphere for him. That's the Kyubi. Therefore, as a skill, he cannot form the sphere one-handed. If you want, you can add to the Kyubi section that it helps him do it one-handed, but for the abilities section he CANNOT do it one-handed.
 * Okay, let's see. How many hands does it take to activate his Demon Fox chakra? Zero. How many hands does it take to use the Spiraling Sphere with the Fox chakra? One. Now let's plug this into an extremely complicated mathematical equation:
 * $$0+1=1$$
 * Well, whaddayaknow?! It is one hand! So surprising!

 You Can '  t See Me!  07:01, 26 May 2007 (UTC)


 * How does not using his own chakra not make the technique one-handed? Your entire argument is based upon speculation. We offer a concrete fact - he forms the Spiraling Sphere with a single hand while in his one-tailed demon fox form. And in any case, any powers he assumes from the demon fox qualify as being part of his abilities, and it is logical to place them in his abilities section. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:59, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

If he uses the Kyubi chakra, he can do it one-handed sort-of, but not really. When he's not using it, he definetely cannot do it one handed. You have a freaking section called with the "Demon Fox's Assistance"!!! It doesn't get any more clear than that. Skillwise, he can't, with Kyubi, which is inherited I guess, he can, but its not skill or sbility. its the Kyubi chakra doing the forming work that he cannot do, unless he uses a clone. Its the Demon Fox! And you have a Demon Fox section in the article! I can't spell this out any clearer!


 * Let's make this clear: Naruto does the work, not the Fox chakra. Naruto molds the chakra that he is provided with, not the Fox. Naruto remains in control up until his Four-tailed state. It does not matter what sort of preparation he needs to perform a technique; as long as he performs it, he can officially do it.
 * By the way, watch this. While movies are not canon, they have yet to do anything to directly contradict main-series facts and such.  You Can '  t See Me!  07:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

No, Naruto does not do the work, he tells the Kyubi chakra to form it, and it does if for him. There's a difference between will and skill (ha). He wills something else to do something for him, or he uses his own skill to do it himself. Without Kyubi chakra, he can't do it. That's that. As for that preview, I know this will sound knit-picky, but I never saw a fully-formed Rasengan. i saw an almost formed one, plus it was dissapating instead of being created. He could have made a fully-formed one, and then fell unconscious so it lost it's power, or tried to form one and couldn't get it together but was close. Again, that could have tons of explanations until the movie comes out and we see it for what is. I know that sounds like alot to say that he needs to form it completely, canonly, without any outside help, and a few other things I'm prbably foretting, but that's the way it is. It has to be 100% true to be fact, and riht now itsnot 100%.
 * What leads you to believe that Naruto does not form the SS himself while using the NTF chakra? He molds all of his other attacks on his own regardless of what level of chakra he draws from the Fox.  You Can '  t See Me!  07:33, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Because if he wasn't using the Kyubi chakra, he couldn't do it! It was in the original version of this article before it got changed to this new weird version, which it got from the Databooks. Which are canon.


 * Naruto can't summon Gamabunta, then? –Gunslinger47 08:10, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Naruto summoned Gamabunta once, without the Kyubi's help. when he was fighting Gaara, and I think that was more to prove the point that if you fight for those you care about blah, blah, all that.  The point is, yes, he once summoned Gamabunta without the Kyubi.  Most of the time he needs the Kyubi's help on that one though, but if he tries hard enough he can do it himself, as shown in that fight.  Before you say it, yes he did not use the Kyubi until that ending part so don't try to bring that up.
 * Hm. So he does. X-D –Gunslinger47 16:52, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Would you happen to have a manga scan of that handy? From what I've heard, the manga showed a slitted pupil immediately before his mass shadow cloning, but the anime left him un-foxed to emphasize the strength of friendship. I've never been able to verify this because I haven't read the scans, though.  You Can '  t See Me!  18:02, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * He needs Kyubi in the manga. ~SnapperTo 18:15, 26 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Hm. So he does. o_0 –Gunslinger47 00:23, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Alright, I stand corrected, to summon Gamabunta he needs Kyubi chakra. So I guess that it should be put that without the Kyubi chakara he can't summon Gamabunta, just his smaller children like Gamakichi. That doesn't change anything about the whole one-handed Spiraling Sphere issue. He can't do a one-handed Spiraling Sphere. And if he can the manga has never shown it, with 100% verification.


 * Naruto can summon Gamabunta. Naruto can do a one-handed Rasengan.  Perhaps not alone, perhaps only with the Kyuubi, perhaps only when he's under stress, or on every second Monday.  Doesn't matter to the statement of fact.  He has done it. –Gunslinger47 00:23, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

No, because the one and only time he has ever done a one-handed rasengan was under specific circumstances that duplicated the control he lacked. That means puttuing that he can do it in Part II but prefers to use a clone is a mis-leading statement and you know it. I see where you're coming from, and maybe he can do it one-handed now in Part II, but its never been shown and the only time he did was under special circumstances. He's never mastered the ability. Plus you have a feaking section called "Demon Fox' Assistance," I don't see why you'tr so adamant on not putting it under there!


 * No comment. –Gunslinger47 20:36, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

I don't understand. Does that mean you'll change it? You could even put that he "might" be able to do it one-handed or something, but right now it needs to be changed. Add to the Kyubi section or saomething, but change it because right now the information is just false.


 * You're wrong. If you take the chakra that Naruto is using, that's still chakra. Might be invisible, but it's chakra. You're trying to say that the Kyuubi chakra isn't his own? Well, if the Kyuubi is in him, then it's his chakra. It's like a second gas tank. So if you're saying that he can only do the one handed Rasengan with his 2nd chakra, he can't Kawarimi, Henge, Kage Bunshin, Koshiyose, or even Kai without his chakra.

In the show, they've explicitly stated that the Kyubi chakra and Naruto's chakra are two different chakras. For evidence look to the Naruto and Neji fight, Jiraiya training him to learn the Summoning Jutsu, or even recent Shippuden issues where the KYUBI CHAKRA has to be controlled by Yamato. Saying they're the same because they're both coming from Naruto's body doesn't make any sense. It has been stated many times that Naruto has two different chakras. A small bit of the Kyubi's leaks into his own attributing to his lack of chakra control and his large chakra capacity, but that's it. If he physically transforms, which he did the only time he ever did a one-handed Rasengan, then its Kyubi chakra. Not his own. They are not the same, and many chracters on the show have stated that many times. You don't have to take out that he can do it one-handed, just move it to the "Demon Fox Assitance" section and add a note to the Abilities section that he can only do it one-handed with the Kyubi's help.

naruto has never ever used rasengan without a clone or the kyubi. supah kid

So, you guys haven't respondced with any counter-arguments in a long while, and that means you'll change the article right?

Or are you going to be jack-asses and, even though you have no more argument, aren't won't change the article because you don't have to? Wow, you guys really suck. I guess the facts don't matter on Wikipedia, just that you guys get to be right. Real nice.


 * We have no new arguments and there is no need to repeat our existing arguments with different phrasing. At the moment, consensus favors the Kyuubi's assistance counting. –Gunslinger47 06:34, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Then at least make a note of the Kyuubi's part in it with the article please! Right now, it doesn't mention the Kyubi when it comes to the one-handed Rasengan so can you fix THAT at least?

other naruto part II picture
ok so im thinking we should get a picture of naruto in part II like saske's and sakura's and stuff you know what i mean? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jackjohnson15 (talk • contribs).


 * Not really, what do you mean? We already have two images from Part II in this article. –Gunslinger47 16:24, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * I believe he means a full body shot (which is already being used) though without a background, much like this. ~SnapperTo 19:19, 18 May 2007 (UTC)


 * While that picture is good, it does seem somewhat fuzzy, as compared to the image we have now/
 * i mean like the one we have on sasuke's page or sakura you know?

Time at the academy
It says that Naruto failed the Academy exam 3 times, yet the flashbacks show the other characters as being in his class for longer than than they should have been if he had (assuming each time he failed he joined the class that was below him the previous year), can someone clear this up? Avatarofrage 12:10, 20 May 2007 (UTC) no every final exam he failed it


 * It's unknown. It may be that he retook the exams after failing, as opposed to staying back a year. It may simply be that Kishimoto made a mistake with the timeline.Retlor 18:40, 21 May 2007 (UTC)


 * It seems as though the amount of time one needs to reach the next level is variable. For instance, Kakashi claims to have reached Jonin level by twelve years, and Itachi made ANBU captain at 13, was it? Perhaps the same applies to academy students; I can easily imagine the overaspiring Naruto attempting to take the exit exam two years too early.  You Can '  t See Me!  19:00, 21 May 2007 (UTC)