Talk:Nataliya Vitrenko

Kuchma's Agent
It seems like this article should at least MENTION that Vitrenko and Symonenko were actually working for Kuchma as cut-outs to keep Lazarenko and Tymoshenko out of the election, and Moroz out of the run-off, in 1999. It should also mention the fake grenade attack that was used to set up Moroz's associate Serhii Ivanchenko (he was pardoned in 2004).

Autobiography
Please, feel free to translate and reorganize the article. Sashazlv 00:47, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

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&#1076;&#1080;&#1089;&#1077;&#1088;&#1090;&#1072;&#1094;&#1110;&#1102;. &#1059; 1994 p. &#1086;&#1073;&#1088;&#1072;&#1085;&#1072; &#1072;&#1082;&#1072;&#1076;&#1077;&#1084;&#1110;&#1082;&#1086;&#1084; &#1040;&#1082;&#1072;&#1076;&#1077;&#1084;&#1110;&#1111; &#1073;&#1091;&#1076;&#1110;&#1074;&#1085;&#1080;&#1094;&#1090;&#1074;&#1072; &#1059;&#1082;&#1088;&#1072;&#1111;&#1085;&#1080;, &#1091; 1997 p. – &#1072;&#1082;&#1072;&#1076;&#1077;&#1084;&#1110;&#1082;&#1086;&#1084; &#1040;&#1082;&#1072;&#1076;&#1077;&#1084;&#1110;&#1111; &#1077;&#1082;&#1086;&#1085;&#1086;&#1084;&#1110;&#1095;&#1085;&#1086;&#1111; &#1082;&#1110;&#1073;&#1077;&#1088;&#1085;&#1077;&#1090;&#1080;&#1082;&#1080;. 3 &#1095;&#1077;&#1088;&#1074;&#1085;&#1103; 1994 p. &#1087;&#1086; &#1089;&#1110;&#1095;&#1077;&#1085;&#1100; 1995 p. – &#1088;&#1072;&#1076;&#1085;&#1080;&#1082; &#1043;&#1086;&#1083;&#1086;&#1074;&#1080; &#1042;&#1077;&#1088;&#1093;&#1086;&#1074;&#1085;&#1086;&#1111; &#1056;&#1072;&#1076;&#1080; &#1059;&#1082;&#1088;&#1072;&#1111;&#1085;&#1080; 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LaRouche movement
I checked an archive that turned up 511 articles that mention "Nataliya Vitrenko", but zero that mention "Nataliya Vitrenko" + LaRouche. Beyond signing a letter supoorting a single LaRouche proposal, what evidence is there that this poersons' notability is tied to the LaRouche movemnent?  Will Beback   talk    05:41, 22 October 2009 (UTC)
 * :If you want to do an effective search for sources, I would suggest doing it in Russian (Линдон Ларуш +"Наталья Витренко"). If you will take a closer look at the article, you will find that there is a third-party source there which clearly establishes Vitrenko's connection to LaRouche (Madison, Andrew, "Image of Women in Modern Politics," SMI.ru, March 11, 1999.) Also, Vitrenko didn't just sign the letter, she co-authored it with LaRouche's wife. The text includes this sentence: We, the signators, refer to Lyndon LaRouche as the economist, worldwide, who has analyzed the causes of the systemic crisis in greatest depth, and for the longest time, and who, at the same time, has elaborated a complete package of measures to be taken to overcome it: the anti-crisis program for a New Bretton Woods. --Leatherstocking (talk) 15:23, 22 October 2009 (UTC);
 * Wouldn't Ukrainian be a better language for searching?
 * I'm not quite sure what to make of this Google translation of the article you linked to:
 * ''Unfortunately, there is no place (and just no place) to talk about the ideological leaven Vitrenko. Can only mention that, along with Marxism (his publicists is the "radical left rhetoric"), she is also American in origin. Lyndon LaRouche - the so-called man who became one of the sources of ideological self Vitrenko, and this is an example of the progress of his mental activity (referred to "mental illness" political animal, which is akin to the behavior of the ostrich in certain circumstances): "Among the victims of mental illness, this problem is recognized in the form: "I do not want to face reality. We are living in the "information age", can simply switch channels. "Or, in other words:" I do not want to face reality, I can always turn to the newspaper, or join a political party that shares my favorite mistake. "
 * ''A fighter for reform of the Democratic Party and one of the current presidential candidates, it prints Vitrenko in its publication "Executive Intelligence Review", where the first image displayed in the web text (Russian version), entitled: "The physical economy as Plato's epistemological foundation of all branches of human knowledge . What have Anpilov? In what Zhirinovsky? Natalia Vitrenko - Doctor of Economic Sciences, academician of the Academy of Economic Cybernetics. She even vehemently arguing, argues, and not shudder that occurs quite often (see the official website brilliant rebuke Peter Simonenko). Yes, she "left", but when comparing it with someone, it is not already to Gaidar. Or Kiriyenko (they actually act against one enemy: Kiriyenko - against capitalist nomenclature, and Vitrenko - against socialist). However, I am not inclined to exaggerate the importance of points of similarity between them. And not the similarities, differences in opinion (myself Vitrenko, among other things, for pluralism in this area).
 * Mysterious.   Will Beback    talk    19:24, 22 October 2009 (UTC)


 * This article indicates she was one of the main speakers at a Schiller Insititute event in Germany. thhat's the best source I've seen so far.    Will Beback    talk    19:36, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Postings by sock of banned user struck-through.   Will Beback    talk    02:59, 29 October 2009 (UTC)
 * :::The Google translation of the SMI.ru article is very awkward, but what is clear is that the author considers LaRouche to be an important and "American" influence on Vitrenko's ideology. The new article you found is good, and apparently hot off the presses. --Leatherstocking (talk) 01:04, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

I've removed the material again. It was obviously restored without any review. There's no Russian poet named "Andrew Madison".  Will Beback   talk    21:45, 16 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Waalkes is not a banned editor. Instead of edit warring, Will Beback, I suggest we evaluate the sources you deleted.  The first line, from Ukrainian Weekly appears to be fine.  The second, from Andrew Madison, is from a url that apparently belonged to Vremya Novostei, a defunct newspaper.  If so, then it is also fine.  I don't know if Giga Mir is a RS.  If it is, then it's ok to use the Schiller Institute to give more background into her involvement at the conference with Mr. and Ms. LaRouche.  I will ask at the Russian project if Giga Mir is an RS. Cla68 (talk) 01:11, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Leatherstocking/Herschelkrustofsky, with whom you regularly commiserate, is a banned editor. Acting as a proxy for a banned editor is not permitted. Restoring material added by a banned user requires taking full responsibility for it. The edit in question contained obviously inaccurate material. Schiller Institute is reliable only for itself, and GiaMir is a portal site which appears to reprint press releases. Are you taking responsibility for this material, Cla68?   Will Beback    talk    01:16, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I had no intention of provoking such a defensive response, Will, as that gets in the way of productive discussion, which is my only aim here. Now, I see you don't believe that GigaMir is a reliable source, and I'm reserving judgement on that myself.  The first and second lines, however, from Ukrainian Weekly and Vremya Novostei, appear to be ok.  Do you disagree? Cla68 (talk) 05:41, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * This is a BLP and we have to adhere to the highest standards. The burden rests on the editors who add the material. Do you really believe that user:Atomicsneakers is a good faith editor who is not under any editing prohibitions? That editor and another seemingly made blind reverts without carefully reviewing the material, and adding back poor quality sources.    Will Beback    talk    17:28, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

What does the source in question actually say about Vitrenko? Is this a complete summary or are we just picking a single factoid from the article?  Will Beback   talk    23:33, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * However, Andrew Madison, writing in Vremya Novostei, said that Vitrenko's ideological foundations were partially American in origin, because along with the Marxism she was also influenced by the ideas of Lyndon LaRouche.
 * Madison, Andrew, "Image of Women in Modern Politics," SMI.ru, March 11, 1999


 * I am looking forward to reading an explanation for this deletion. Is it your position that Vitrenko's own website is not a reliable source for her own opinions? It's not a "claim about third parties," it's a simple statement of her own views. Or are you arguing that it is defamatory to LaRouche? Waalkes (talk) 19:23, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * We can't use self-published sources for material on other living people. See WP:BLPSPS
 * Are you going to answer my question about the Vremya Novostei you added?   Will Beback    talk    20:21, 19 January 2012 (UTC)
 * What question was that? As I said in my last post, I have read WP:SPS and I don't think the deleted material was a "claim about third parties," it was a description of Vitrenko's personal views. But I found another source on LaRouche and Vitrenko. Cla68, could you check to see if this is a good source? Waalkes (talk) 00:54, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
 * To repeat the question: What does the source in question actually say about Vitrenko? Is this a complete summary or are we just picking a single factoid from the article?     Will Beback    talk    01:06, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Bias
This article is deeply biased against Mrs Vitrenko. There are lots of subjective words 'radical', 'controversial' which do not fit into an objective article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Claudiuscrockett (talk • contribs) 11:32, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
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