Talk:Natasha Williams (Neighbours)/GA1

GA Review
The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.''

Reviewer: AIR corn (talk) 04:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Will review this shortly AIR corn (talk) 04:20, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

A few prose issues that are detailed and some concerns about the focus of the storyline section. Possibly a little quote heavy, but they are incorporated well so not too much of a concern. No DABS or dead links. Overall a pretty decent article. A left some overview comments in the Criteria section and went into more detail under comments. Please respond to any comment that you do not understand or do not agree with. Cheers AIR corn (talk) 12:44, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Criteria

 * GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)


 * 1) It is reasonably well written.
 * a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
 * Some of the sentences need to be read a bit more carefully. I have listed individual problems in the comments, but the main issue seams to be the use of and to join non-related aspects that could be read a number of ways. Could the second paragraph in the lead be split. Currently there is one short one and one long one. The last two sections of Character Development would fit better under storyline.
 * 1) It is factually accurate and verifiable.
 * a (references): b (citations to reliable sources):  c (OR):
 * Sources are reliable enough for what they are conveying. They are well formatted and I did not detect any original research.
 * 1) It is broad in its coverage.
 * a (major aspects): b (focused):
 * The storyline section repeats a lot of information from the previous section. Would there be a way to organise the structure better so that the information is not repeated.
 * 1) It follows the neutral point of view policy.
 * Fair representation without bias:
 * All good.
 * 1) It is stable.
 * No edit wars, etc.:
 * Stable as.
 * 1) It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
 * a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
 * Nice use of quotes to break up the text.
 * 1) Overall:
 * Pass/Fail:

Comments

 * lead
 * She likes to have all the attention on her and she often chooses to rebel, so her people notice her. Is there an extra her here? ✅
 * She clashes with Summer Hoyland (Jordy Lucas) because she is a feminist and Novakovic has said that they are "frenemies." Does she clash because Novakovic says they are "frenemies"? Might need to be reworded. ✅
 * She expressed her desire to portray Natasha's softer and funnier side Expressed to who? ✅
 * Their relationship has led to a complex love triangle with Summer and Natasha faking a pregnancy to keep Andrew. Did Summer and Natasha both fake pregnancys ✅


 * Casting
 * In April 2010, it was announced that three new characters; Doug Harris (Mahesh Jadu), Michael Williams (Sandy Winton) and Natasha Williams played by Valentina Novakovic were to join Neighbours in the following few months. I am assuming Novakovic did not play all three characters. If so needs to made into a parenthetical statement. ✅
 * The role of Natasha is Novakovic's first acting job and she said "I've always been interested in architecture and I may return to it at a later stage, but for the moment I want to really enjoy the experience on Neighbours. When did she say that? After the audition? After a few episodes? Needs some context. ✅


 * Characterisation
 * Natasha wants to be a model and become famous. Natasha loves gossip and she knows how to get the boy's attentions. Two or more repetitive short sentences can be a little jolting, could they be combined? ✅
 * Bower also added that Natasha and Summer Hoyland (Jordy Lucas) "spark" because the character of Summer is a feminist who fights for causes. How does being a feminist create sparks. An what is actually meant by "sparks" - Wiktionary states that sparks mean "To trigger, kindle into activity (an argument, etc)". I've linked to the Wiktionary definition of sparks in the article. -  JuneGloom    Talk  22:13, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I was hoping there might be a better word than sparks. I don't think a wikilink should be used, technically it is a quote and they aren't supposed to be in quotes and I think a link to wikitonary might not be expected. I know the interview says sparks, but is there a better word you would feel comfortable using to describe their relationship that still fits in with what Bower was meaning. If not just leave it as "sparks" in quote marks. AIR corn (talk) 11:31, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Oh, I see. I changed it to clash to match the lead. - JuneGloom    Talk  19:50, 21 June 2011 (UTC)


 * In October 2010, Novakovic described Natasha's personality change Would mention that her personality changed, before describing it. ✅


 * Relationship with Andrew Robinson and love triangle
 * Awkward title. She doesn't have a relationship with "love triangle". Probably doesn't need love triangle. ✅
 * Novakovic said that Natasha "sees the relationship of Susan and Karl as something to be inspired by." Who are Susan and Karl. ✅
 * I am not that familiar with neighbours, I was more wondering who they were in relation to Natasha than there real life identities. If it can easily be added that would be good, but as they are wikilinked it is not essential. AIR corn (talk) 11:36, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅, they're her neighbours. - JuneGloom    Talk  19:50, 21 June 2011 (UTC)


 * She later added that Andrew and Natasha "bring out the worst in each other" Novakovic later said that Natasha's relationship with Andrew has been one of her favourite storylines. Is this supposed to be a single sentence. As "She [Natasha] later added [said]" begins each sentence/statement it could be quite easily separated by "and". ✅
 * When Natasha decides to dump him, Kyle gets there first. Where is Kyle going? ✅
 * Adelaide Now said that thrills Natasha "as she's completely obsessed with him, but now Andrew wants Summer back." Not sure how that quote works with Natasha being thrilled. ✅
 * Andrew tells Natasha that he is going to business meeting before going to see Summer. Ungrammatical. Did he tell Natasha that he was going to see Summer? ✅
 * Of the implications this has for Natasha, Novakovic said that it is a "big deal" for a girl like her, as she aspires to be a model." Muddled syntax. ✅


 * Fake pregnancy
 * The previous paragraph lead me to believe that Natasha did not know about Andrew cheating with Summer, while this one begins with Natasha discovers that Andrew has been cheating on her with Summer. It probably needs to either be introduced better in this section or made clear in the previous one. - I think I've corrected this, but I might need to look at it again. - JuneGloom    Talk  22:53, 14 June 2011 (UTC) ✅
 * And she feels they are pitying her because of her injury and really hates that. Would add in [] what the injury was. The burn on her neck? ✅
 * During an interview with Digital Spy, Novakovic explained that there are times when Natasha feels guilty for what she is doing, when she starts getting along with Andrew. Does she feel guilty when she gets along with Andrew. This is not very clear. ✅
 * Summer realises that Natasha has been lying about being pregnant and reveals the truth in front of Andrew and Michael, which shocks Natasha. Would change Michael to "her dad" as it has been a while since he was mentioned and I had to scan back to find out who he was. ✅
 * Andrew does not take the news well and Michael blames himself for his daughter's actions.[23] Novakovic hopes this experience will change Natasha and that she will start to grow up and stop lying as she may lose everyone and Natasha struggles to cope by herself. Ungrammatical. The "and Natasha struggles to cope by herself" appears to be just tacked on. ✅


 * Storylines


 * A lot of the previous section contained storylines and a lot of information is repeated in this section. Would it be possible to combine them better. My suggestion would be remove the Characterisation heading, start the Storylines section after the Characterisation section and incorporate any new information into the Relationship and Fake pregnancy (and/or any other headings you think might work) sections. The major plot points appear to be covered in the previous sections and I would avoid going into too much detail on non-major plot arcs.


 * Not sure what to do about this one, most fictional character articles that I've worked on have a separate storylines section. - JuneGloom    Talk  22:13, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I am happy for a storylines section to be included. It was just that as I was reading the article I noticed that a lot of information here was already repeated in the previous section, which lead me to believe that it should be included in that section. On second thoughts maybe a better idea would be to put the story lines section ahead of character development. That way there is a broad overview about what is happening before it gets into the nitty gritty details of the major plot lines. This is the first fictional character review I have conducted so I am not that familiar with the ideal layout. Thanks for the work so far I don't have time right now, but will have another thorough read through tonight. AIR corn (talk) 02:00, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I can certainly put the storyline section first. I do have a small request, if it's okay. I have some more development info, regarding her current storyline, to add and was wondering if I can add it during the review? - JuneGloom    Talk  22:17, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I will leave it up to you whether you move the storyline or not, it won't fail if it isn't. Feel free to add the information and give me a bell when you are done. I will then review the storyline section. AIR corn (talk) 11:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I've added the extra development info (it's not a long section, thankfully) and edited the lead to include it. Should the storylines go after casting or before? - JuneGloom    Talk  19:50, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I think the should go before. Put them up there and see what you think. They can always be moved later. AIR corn (talk) 04:31, 22 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Reception
 * Nice

Holding for now. AIR corn (talk) 12:44, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

Thank you for the thorough review. I'll make a start now. - JuneGloom    Talk  17:50, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

2nd Read through
A few nitpicks, but nothing major are mentioned above. I also made a few changes as I went through. It might pay to check that I haven't mixed anything up as I haven't watched since Kylie was on it. As for the storyline I will let you make some changes and then review it individually as I feel it should be able to survive as a concise summary on its own. If there is anything that does not seem to make sense to me I will add it below this. Let me know when you are ready either here or on my talk page. Cheers AIR corn (talk) 11:53, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Oops, I missed this section. You haven't mixed anything up, in fact you made the "Natasha break up with Kyle" sentence a lot better. - JuneGloom    Talk  21:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Ivan DeMarco
 * The Daily Star reported that Ivan would then betray Natasha by showing the pictures to his friends. DAB Daily Star ✅
 * Natasha goes viral after her "act of recklessness" and TV Week sid that her situation should be a lesson to anyone thinking of doing the same. Said mispelled. Maybe say Natasha's picture goes Viral (if that is correct) and wikilink Viral. ✅


 * Storylines


 * I found this a little tricky to follow. It has a lot of information, but some of the sentences do not tie in very well and the prose is choppy in many places. I feel it needs to be written more like a story and less like a collection of information. It reads like too much information is trying to be squeezed into a few paragraphs. Either some of the sentences need to be expanded to tie in with the previous ones or some of the lesser plot points should be removed. Not everything that happens needs to be included in this section, especially since the major plot points are covered in such detail elsewhere.

The following either need more context or could be trimmed.
 * Natasha and Andrew work together to change the posters. Why do they change the posters. ✅
 * Natasha clashes with Summer and starts a rumour about Chris Pappas (James Mason) buying his baskestball team captaincy. Why would she start a rumour? - Because she's a bitch? ;) I'll have to have a think about how to reword that. - JuneGloom    Talk  22:40, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah I kinda guessed she wasn't the sweet innocent one. Did she have something to gain from starting the rumour? Is the rumour even that important? Maybe this sentence could be used to reinforce her and Summers fiery relationship. If the two events are not related they probably should not be in the same sentence. If they are related it could be written something like "Natasha clashes with Summer and starts a rumour that her boyfriend, Chris Pappas (James Mason), brought the baskestball team captaincy."? AIR corn (talk) 02:59, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I just remembered that Natasha started the rumour because Summer and Chris had become a more popular couple than herself and Andrew. - JuneGloom    Talk  12:31, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Michael finds out and embarrasses Natasha in front of her class, she gets her revenge by humiliating him in front of the school. How important is this, it doesn't seem to add to the article. How about "Her relationship with her father is strained further when he learns she started the rumour." AIR corn (talk) 02:59, 26 June 2011 (UTC) ✅
 * Natasha discovers that a student in her class is gay and tries to out them, this forces Chris to reveal he is gay. How does this force Chris to reveal he is gay? ✅
 * Maybe I am missing something, but I don't see how rumours force someone to come out. I changed it to "lead", but feel free to revert or change if this is not correct. AIR corn (talk)
 * If I remember right, all the talk and rumours started to get to Chris and when Summer was accused of being gay, he came out to stop the accusations. - JuneGloom    Talk  12:31, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Natasha, Summer and Andrew team up and try to discover who pushed Paul from Lassiter's mezzanine. Might want to say Paul was pushed off the mezzanine before you talk about them trying to discover who it was. Not sure how this compares to the other plot points ✅ - It could probably go, what do you think? - JuneGloom    Talk  22:40, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It does seem a bit random compared to the rest of the paragraph. Unless it is expanded on, i.e. they find the culprit, I would remove it. AIR corn (talk) 02:59, 26 June 2011 (UTC) ✅
 * Natasha gets Andrew to spend his savings on the baby. This short sentence could probably be removed or incorporated better. ✅
 * Chris tells Natasha to get Summer and Andrew back together and she agrees. Natasha challenges Lisa for the Mathletes captaincy and wins. Andrew and Summer begin dating and Natasha feels left out. Lots of short slightly unrelated sentences together. ✅ - Not sure if I've made it worse or not. - JuneGloom    Talk  22:40, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Looks good AIR corn (talk) 02:59, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

Other comments:


 * Natasha models for a PirateNet advertising campaign and she meets Andrew Robinson and Summer Hoyland. Should this be "where she meets"? ✅
 * They attend a concert together and kiss at the end of the night Could this be tied to the previous sentence using "and" or "They then attend" ✅
 * Libby Kennedy (Kym Valentine) discovers Natasha is hiding her maths skills and makes her join the Mathletes as a punishment. Who is Kennedy. A teacher? - Yes ✅
 * Natasha notices that Andrew is spending time with Summer and she steals the social money, so the event is cancelled. Causing the event to be cancelled. ✅
 * How is seeing Andrew with Summer related to stealing the social money? AIR corn (talk) 02:59, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Natasha becomes suspicious about Andrew's dance party and she realises that Andrew's partner, Tomas (Tim Munley), is dealing drugs. Partner? What is meant by partner in this situation? ✅


 * In trying to keep the storyline section small, I've kinda removed a lot of detail. Natasha's only been in the show a year, but she seems to have done a lot! - JuneGloom    Talk  22:40, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I have had a go at fixing some issues. I probably did more than I should have so please check that I haven't introduced factual errors or made changes you don't agree with. Diff AIR corn (talk) 02:59, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Everything looks good to me. I'm glad you found Viral phenomenon, I could only see Viral marketing and Viral video, which is why I just linked to Viral. - JuneGloom    Talk  12:31, 26 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Every issue dealt with. Thank you and it is now my pleasure to pass this. AIR corn (talk) 05:30, 27 June 2011 (UTC)