Talk:Nation of Islam and antisemitism

Anti semitism in question?
Most of the anti-semitism claims come from references into speeches or things said by khalid muhammad, alot of which Minister Farrakhan has said he did not necessarily agree with on 60 minutes interview with barbara walters. In fact Khalid Muhammad was demoted for these speeches and eventually kicked out. This is not typical of racist or discriminatory institution to kick out members for racism. I mean how many skin heads are kicked out for making anti black statements? The claims of anti semitism I think are largely false. Louis Farrkahn the leader, is not a denier of the holocaust. I find this article pointless, basically it says that there are anti semites in the NOI but the leader louis farakhan rejects anti semitism in the barbara walters interview. There are racist in every organization and most of the presidents before Carter were open racist who dislike blacks. Matter a fact George Washington owned slaves and Thomas Jefferson was raping black women, why is it nowhere in these articles that these men are racist? The pope and the white church embraced slavery, embraced the holocaust and supproted mussolini and hitler, why is it not painted as anti semitic when they are far more responsible for helping in the murder of millions of jews, than the NOI who has zero involvement? As for jews financing the holocaust, well, jews did control most of the banks at the time because of the historical usury probalem for christians and the fact that jews were mostly merchants and thus had more liquid money as opposed to land. It would be a lie to say that jews who ran these banks were not dealing with nazi party members who eventually formed the majority of germany. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.18.213 (talk) 23:17, 31 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The article already contains a section named "Response to charges of antisemitism" which begins with the sentence "The Nation of Islam has repeatedly denied charges of anti-Semitism ...". If you want to elaborate on that point, go ahead and find some reliable sources and add material into that section. --Noleander (talk) 23:29, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Yes but that is not addressing the issue. The issue here is why is it that one group who had 1 single man name khalid muhammad who was not even the leader of the group make anti-semitic statements has an article that suggest the whole group is racist. Whereas the other groups (church who supported racist) or banks who helped in the holocaust or people who were racist or made racist statements or owned black slaves and raped black women, have no mention of this in their articles. In my opnion this article should just be deleted because we are not going to change all the other articles. It is unfair and opens wikipedia to lawsuits to claim an entire organization racist or anti-semitic by the words of one single minister amongst hundreds of ministers named khalid muhammad. The articles should conform. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.238.18.213 (talk) 09:18, 5 August 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that this article should - in general - not contain material about individuals that were not leaders of (or represent) the faith in an official capacity. If K. Muhammad was not a leader or spokesperson of Nation of Islam, then material related to him should be moved into the article Khalid Muhammad.  What was K. Muhammad's role in the Nation of Islam?  --Noleander (talk) 12:37, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Farrakhan has a well-documented record of hate speech against Jews. You can see a montage of what he has said here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iC9mlc-aTIY&ab_channel=JosephCohen — Preceding unsigned comment added by Exiero (talk • contribs) 18:05, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

WP:OR
Adding editorial apologetic comments about the makeup of the board of governors, for example, is a violation of WP:OR, WP:SYNTH, etc. IF there is a verifiable and reliable source that makes those specific claims, that may be quoted; editors are not allowed to add their own opinions about statements in articles. -- Avi (talk) 13:55, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

Request
This article should separate between allegations made at the Original NOI and Farrakhans organisation. I'm not saying they are different, because I have no idea but the members booing at that white supremecist speaking suggest there was fractions within the NOI back then. 212.107.143.107 (talk) 19:41, 9 February 2011 (UTC)

I had to delete parts of the paragraph on Holocaust denying. Parts being uncited and the source given was an opinion piece by an author who didn't use his real name so I had trouble understanding the original content of the piece. There were also possible elements of original research as a web page on black history was quoted and the description given that it was run by NOI supports, however I could find nothing to substantiate this. If there are any reliable sourced materials it can be added back in. I'm cautious to include unsupported allegations, that alluded to an anonymous internet source, especially given this allegation. I'm not sure what's going on with this subject but after looking on the internet for a bit, I could not find a source that compares NOI to deniers that doesn't also state other fringe racist conspiracies such as the slave trade was over exaggerated and that black leaders today profit from the African slave business. For these reasons, I would caution to assert these statements unless a reputable source is found.

I also agree with the above statement that there is no distinction drawn between the various African Muslim organizations and the Nation of Islam. I think I'll direct a peer to this page and see if something can be done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.133.55.160 (talk) 04:10, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

RfC
An RfC: Which descriptor, if any, can be added in front of Southern Poverty Law Center when referenced in other articles? has been posted at the Southern Poverty Law Center talk page. Your participation is welcomed. – MrX 17:03, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:3D Test of Antisemitism which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 10:30, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

John Conyers paragraph -- undue weight and off-topic
In the section of the article titled "General claims", the first paragraph is a single sentence listing five organizations that consider the Nation of Islam to be antisemitic. The second paragraph, which is three sentences long, is about U.S. Representative John Conyers criticizing a single speech by Louis Farrakhan. Seems like a case of undue weight to me.

Is Conyers' opinion of a speech really as important -- or more important -- than the views of multiple organizations? What qualifications does Conyers have? His criticism is directed toward the speech, not the Nation of Islam. Seems off-topic as well as undue weight. — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 12:02, 19 December 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree. There's no reason to have this paragraph here. That's a criticism of a speech made by Farrakhan, not a general claim about anything. Any objections to removing it? Flyte35 (talk) 14:54, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Attributed quote from a civil rights icon is appropriate. Jason from nyc (talk) 15:31, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think it is. The quote doesn't make any sense there. The section is about "general claims of antisemitism" and that quote doesn't have anything to do with criticizing the Nation of Islam generally for being anti-Semitic.Flyte35 (talk) 16:00, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * You don't think Farrakhan speaks for the NoI or even more, the embodiment of the NoI? Jason from nyc (talk) 16:04, 17 February 2017 (UTC)
 * I don't think it's a necessary or useful addition to this section because it's not a general claim of antisemitism against the Nation of Islam. Flyte35 (talk) 16:09, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

Jason from nyc, could you please address the issues I raised about undue weight. Is criticism of a single speech by Farrakhan by a single member of Congress really so much more significant than criticism of the beliefs and public pronouncements of the Nation of Islam by major civil rights organizations that it merits a three-sentence paragraph of its own while they are just listed by name in a single sentence? — MShabazz Talk/Stalk 18:41, 17 February 2017 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://archive.is/20150604204205/http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/1994-farrakhan.html to http://www.iearn.org/hgp/aeti/1994-farrakhan.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070822235721/http://www.noi.org/statements/statements_press_10-07-2000.htm to http://www.noi.org/statements/statements_press_10-07-2000.htm
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120112171108/http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw97-8/usa-int.html to http://www.tau.ac.il/Anti-Semitism/asw97-8/usa-int.html
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External links modified (February 2018)
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Neturei Karta
Neturei Karta is a fringe group akin to the Westboro Baptist Church that is rather tiny and has disproportionate publicity to their actual relevance. Why do we have a whole section about them? See also: tokenization. If there is no objections, I will be removing this. --Calthinus (talk) 06:43, 22 January 2019 (UTC)


 * I agree. Thank you for removing them. — Malik Shabazz Talk/Stalk 04:10, 23 January 2019 (UTC)