Talk:National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs

allegations of abuse against member schools
There seems to be a lot of accusastion of abuse against the member schools of this organization. Many have shut down since the allegations, and many have been sued.

Here is what i have found in the last 15 minutes of searching:

elan - bangor daily news - http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=VK1JAAAAIBAJ&sjid=ig4NAAAAIBAJ&pg=3658,1266808&dq=elan+abuse&hl=en

family foundation school - seatle time - http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2004369792_apyouthbootcamps.html

Mount Bachelor academy - time - http://healthland.time.com/2011/07/12/former-students-of-a-school-for-troubled-teens-sue-for-emotional-sexual-abuse/

Mount Bachelor - U-T Sandieago - http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/aug/24/more-students-accuse-tough-love-school-of-abuse/

Rocky Mountain Academy, Northwest Academy, Ascent - spokesman review - http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=SR&p_theme=sr&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&p_topdoc=1&p_text_direct-0=11EEBA21B53B4DD8&p_field_direct-0=document_id&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&s_trackval=GooglePM

Rocky Mountain Acedemy, Boulder Creek Academy - spokesman-review - http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2011/aug/24/more-students-accuse-tough-love-school-of-abuse/

bromley brook school -- bennington banner -- http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Archives?p_product=BBRB&p_theme=bbrb&p_action=search&p_maxdocs=200&s_dispstring=headline(assaulting%20students)%20AND%20date(12/14/2009%20to%2012/14/2009)&p_field_date-0=YMD_date&p_params_date-0=date:B,E&p_text_date-0=12/14/2009%20to%2012/14/2009)&p_field_advanced-0=title&p_text_advanced-0=(%22assaulting%20students%22)&xcal_numdocs=20&p_perpage=10&p_sort=YMD_date:D&xcal_useweights=no

we need to work this info into the article somehow without it becoming a laundry list. Snertking (talk) 19:18, 4 June 2012 (UTC)


 * Some of these items would make good additions to the Wikipedia articles about the individual schools, but they don't belong in this article because they aren't about NATSAP, not even indirectly. Wikipedia articles should not become Coatracks. Furthermore, not all of these items belong in any encyclopedia article because their inclusion serves no purpose other than slandering the schools. For example, just about any school in North America probably has been accused at one time or another of employing a sex offender -- it's a sad situation, but unless it had a big impact on the school (see Penn State University in 2011), it's not worthy of inclusion in an encyclopedia article about the school. --Orlady (talk) 02:04, 5 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I think having a large number of member schools accused of abuse is relevant and on topic to the article. And since the majority listed above are not allegations of having former sex offenders, we can simply drop the few that are. I don't think the allegations should be individually listed - I would call that a laundry list, you would call that a coat rack, but we would seem to be in agreement on that. What i am suggesting is more along the lines of maybe a single sentence stating that many of the member schools have been accused of abuse, with a list of citations to back it up. Also, if you feel some of the citations are libelous (minor point - written word is libel, spoken word is slander) please point out which ones are and whySnertking (talk) 01:57, 7 June 2012 (UTC)


 * I'll say it again: the article is about the organization, not the individual member schools. "Coatrack" isn't my term; see WP:Coatrack. Also see WP:UNDUE. And while we are at it, see Advocacy, WP:GREATWRONGS, and of course WP:NOT. This isn't about me, it's about Wikipedia policies. --Orlady (talk) 02:37, 7 June 2012 (UTC)
 * as this is relevant and on topic, it would hardly be coatrack. Anymore than a mention of watergate in a Nixon article would be. I was about to suggest that YOU see Advocacy, as it would appear to me you seem to be following this articles related to this industry and systematically trying to remove any critical content. Furthermore, given the controversy over NATSAP it would hardly be WP:UNDUE under anyone's reasonable definition. I don't see any real wikipedia policy violation here in my suggestion, no matter how much you may want there to be. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Snertking (talk • contribs) 16:13, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

To the anonymous user who went ahead in put info above next to the individual schools: That is not how it is done on wikipedia. Things get discussed first, a consensus is reached, then changes are made. This was still an ongoing discussion. Fuerthermore, her coatrack concerns were somewhat valid, and what was done clearly WAS wp:coatrack The allegations broken down as they were belong in the articles for the individual schools, not here. I WOULD however argue that collectively they represent a pattern that pertains directly to the topic of NATSAP, and therefore a VERY brief mention that a number of NATSAP member schools have been accused of abuse, with a list of CITATIONS, not a list of specifics, to back that claim up MAY be appropriate. If you wish to help, you can do so by joining the discussion here. What was done was not constructive. Snertking (talk) 00:06, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

2014 Request edit
I would like to update the list of NATSAP programs as it is way out of date but am hesitant to as I currently work with them and it may be seen as a conflict of interest. Would I be ok with just adding to the list and deleting the programs that are no longer members? I would make no further changes to the page. Or would it be better for someone else to do the editing? Many thanks.


 * Response to request edit: Please take a look at the welcome message I posted on your user talk page and the instructions for using the request edit feature. Regarding your request, we need specific information as to what you would like to see changed. I suggest a comparison between the present version and the revision you recommend. Be sure to prove a reliable source for the changes. Putting the sources in proper citation format will help too. If your requests are specific and carefully done, a reviewing editor may come by and tell you to implement the changes yourself. – S. Rich (talk) 04:27, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Thank you S.Rich, Still trying to figure out Wikipedia. I have a list of the most recent member programs here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1R1GTJwhpqcTVo39TuBLSr9-WlZSaT7esBB2HGN8iw4o/edit and the source is here: http://www.natsap.org/assets/docs/1415Directory/2014-2015%20directory%20as%20of%2009.09.2014.pdf Since it is such a long list, would this page be better served by just linking to the directory or picking a handful of programs (those that have existing Wikipedia pages for example)? I appreciate your help and your thoughts on this. Commacommander (talk) 13:01, 10 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Please look at WP:NOTDIRECTORY. Also, we write in WP:SUMMARYSTYLE. So posting the Directory in the ==External links== section is probably the best course of action. – S. Rich (talk) 15:18, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

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