Talk:National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum/Archive 1

Inductees by round drafted
Does anyone know of a list that shows the number of players inducted to the hall and the round that they were drafted? Such as.. 88 players drafted in Round 1 have been inducted to the hall 22 players drafted in Round 2 have been inducted to the hall 20 players drafted in Round 3 have been inducted to the hall No players drafted in Round 4 have been inducted to the hall THIS IS JUST A MADE UP LIST (THESE AREN'T REAL STATS, just an example of what I'm looking for) Thanks!

I don't know of one offhand, but the draft started in the mid-1960s -- so not all 250+ HoF inductees would have been drafted. The easiest method I can think of is taking all the Hall of Famers who debuted after 1965 (probably no more than a couple dozen) and look at their individual pages on baseball-reference.com to see when they were drafted. That's the quickest way I can think of. Slic e NYC (Talk) 23:39, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks!! I got the list made I just got to get it into a nice list format. Pretty interesting stuff to me... 18 HOFs have been drafted. I hope to have the list up by tomorrow! Kkemper 19:55, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

I may have missed some (I hope not.). This list is also always going to grow. Anyone think this could be included somewhere in the Baseball HOF stats or somewhere? Kkemper 21:33, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Numbers
We now have two different numbers (252 and 254) for current members. Anyone know which is right? Cunc?

Importance
Today the Hall of Fame is a large, modern museum, governed by the laws of the State of New York that regulate museums. [emphasis added]

Why is this an important piece of information? --Charles A. L. 16:00, Dec 22, 2003 (UTC)

10 Year eligibility
The 10-year eligibility rule was also waived for Addie Joss, but of course, many years after his death. Does anything know more about how it happened? Varitek 18:12, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * According to his HoF bio, Joss was elected by the Veteran's Committee. The waiver is worthy of some note in the article, IMHO, so I've worked it in.  Have any other inductees (besides Joss and Roberto Clemente) had a requirement waived? - jredmond 18:31, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Nice one. No, as far as I know, those were the only two for whom the rules were bent. Varitek 18:57, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)


 * Thanks. :)  As it turns out, though, the BBWAA held a special election to elect Lou Gehrig in 1939, even though he had only retired that year and had not yet succumbed to his disease; and the rules for election stipulate that the five-year requirement is automatically waived for players who die while active or within five years of retirement, so Roberto Clemente's election doesn't necessarily fall outside the normal procedure.


 * I think that rule postdates Clemente, and was introduced soleky to stop Clemente being a special case. I'll see if I can find it in the Bill James book.


 * I'm still digging here, and will be making more changes as I find stuff. I'm also thinking about pestering the Hall's research department to look through the article and check for factual accuracy. - jredmond 19:44, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

the clemente bit makes no sense, the 5 year rule was obviously waved for gehrig also, am i missing something or is this just someone with an agenda?

The five year rule was not waived for Gehrig. He was elected in 1939, and that rule was not created until after the 1954 election. There were no restrictions at all on voting in 1936. Ruth was elected and had been retired only a year. In fact, several active players received support in the 1936 balloting, including Gehrig. In 1937-45, there was no waiting period restriction for retired players, but the writers were asked not to vote for active players. (It was an informal rule, and they did not always comply.) From 1946 to 1954, the official waiting period was established at one year. DiMaggio retired after the 1951 season and was on the ballot in 1953, then again in 1954, when he just missed. From the 1955 election to the present day, the modern standard of five years has been in effect. Gehrig would have been eligible for next regular election, but the BBWAA held a special one-man election for him at the 1939 Winter Meetings. Nobody else was on that ballot, and the results have never been revealed. There were no elections held in 1940 or 1941, so the special election permitted Gehrig to enter while he was still alive. (written by Greg Wroblewski)

Pete Rose
''An ongoing controversy facing the Hall of Fame is that of the status of Joe Jackson and Pete Rose. Jackson and Rose were both permanently banned from baseball for actions related to gambling on their own teams - Jackson was determined to have conspired to lose the 1919 World Series on purpose, and Rose voluntarily accepted a permanent spot on the ineligible list in return for Major League Baseball's promise to make no official finding in relation to alleged betting on the Cincinnati Reds when he was their manager in the 1980s. (Baseball's Rule 21, prominently posted in every clubhouse lockerroom, mandates permanent banishment from the sport for having a gambling interest of any sort on a game in which a player or manager is directly involved.)''

The comment about why Pete Rose is banned from the Hall of Fame is not accurate. Rose accepting lifetime placement on the ineligible list did not preclude him from indution into the Hall of Fame. After he was placed on the list the BBWAA as a response instituted a rule that no player on the ineligible list could be considered for induction.--Cglied 19:20, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Negro Leagues
What about Buck ONneil? John wesley 21:32, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

What about him? JG 02:43, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Buck O'Neil was on the list of Negro League players under consideration in the special election process completed in February- Despite his popularity, he was not one of the members inducted.

I don't know much about Buck O'Neil, but if the contoversy over his bid for membership in the HOF is deemed significant, a mention should be added to the Controversies section. JG 04:39, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Page name
This page belongs at the name "National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum", not "Baseball Hall of Fame". Page names should use the actual name, not the common name. Will 22:23, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

Requested move
National Baseball Hall of Fame And Museum → National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum – Capitalization; new name already exists as redirect

This article has been renamed as the result of a move request.

The Bull Durham flap
Just my opinion, but this section (while accurate as far as I remember it) strikes me as way too much detail for a Wikipedia article (per Summary style). It might fit better under an article on Petroskey, now that I think about it. Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone else sees it differently. Thanks. | Mr. Darcy talk 01:10, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

Popularity of players
I'm wondering if we should add a section under Controversies about how many players will be inducted by their popularity with the writers, and not entirely by their playing skill. Phil Rizzuto comes to mind, I mean he had on 200 hit season, while Jim Rice is left out, because of his feuds with the media.

--Kblavie 10:55, 17 December 2006 (UTC)


 * It could be too open to POV and non-neutral statements. A lot of why players do and don't get elected is hypothesis. If you can come up with some sources and references, then by all means be bold, but it can't just be an off the cuff rant about why Jim Rice isn't in. Slic e NYC (Talk) 19:40, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
 * That sort of content, if it belongs anywhere in Wikipedia, belongs in the articles on the individual players, not here. | Mr. Darcy talk 22:11, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't matter now because Jim Rice was inducted in January 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pathfinder1993 (talk • contribs) 23:08, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

photo quality
The exterior photo focuses mainly on the parking lot. Can any one do better? H Bruthzoo 15:12, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


 * The Hall of Fame faces out onto Cooperstown's Main Street, not a parking lot. Any photos of the exterior will probably include some of the street parking. Slic e NYC (Talk) 19:21, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Maris
Another controversy is the constant omission of Roger Maris from the Hall of Fame. 67.188.172.165 04:24, 9 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I wouldn't necessarily call it controversy as this article defines it. The article steers more towards internal affairs. The writers vote the way they vote, and of course it's open for discussion. Similar arguments can be made for Jim Rice, Ron Santo and others, but it's not a controversy relating to the Hall's operation.


 * Good point. 67.188.172.165 05:51, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

2007
Is kipen and that other guy the only two being put in this year?--Kingforaday1620 22:37, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Cal Ripken Jr. and Tony Gwynn were the only ones elected by the writers' ballot. The Veterans' Committee vote is due in February. Slic e NYC (Talk) 01:36, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Number of teams inductees have played for.
I removed the following because it's not true:"Before the current trend of frequent free agency ... players of Hall of Fame quality often played most of their career with one team."

Simply look through the early inductees; other than the innagural inductees, who were truly unique players (Ruth, Cobb, etc.), of the next 15, 11 played substantial periods for multiple teams. It's widely repeated that before free agency, players -- esp. stars -- did not tend to switch teams, but the facts don't agree. Guanxi 15:54, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

This bit reads like an ad - and also a copyvio
"The Grandstand Theater features a 13 minute multimedia film capturing the beauty, majesty and myth of baseball. Theatrical lighting, seamlessly blended DLP projection, 8 channel surround sound and automated staging all combine to create a unique and powerful experience. The 200 seat theater, complete with replica stadium seats, is decorated to resemble Comiskey Park."

Who are we to say it is a "unique and powerful experience"? That's for advertising flyers, not for Wikipedia. I'm not myself a particular baseball fan, so don't trust myself to rewrite that bit; someone else should do it, though. 86.132.140.129 22:29, 25 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Actually it seems to be a copyvio anyway, so has to go. 86.132.140.129 22:30, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Cooperstown name
I'm trying to figure out how to work a mention of how "Cooperstown" is often used as a colloquial name for the HoF, but I'm having trouble with it. Any ideas? --Kevin W. 01:26, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I have proposed that List of Los Angeles Dodgers in the Baseball Hall of Fame be merged into this article as it seems to not be very useful (or likely to be found by the casual reader) on its own. [ roux  ] [ x ] 06:01, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think the List of Los Angeles Dodgers in the Baseball Hall of Fame should stand on its own. It is of interest - and appropriate pages link to it. Kingturtle (talk) 06:08, 2 November 2008 (UTC)


 * I do not believe that List of Los Angeles Dodgers in the Baseball Hall of Fame should be merged into this article, as it is not a scalable approach: it would not be fruitful to include a list of all Hall of Fame inductees in this article. Isaac Lin (talk) 18:17, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Segregation
There should be a mention of the HoF's short lived idea of segregating the Halls. They planned on putting the Negro League players in a separate wing, and not consider them "true Hall of Famers". They only changed their minds after they got blasted in the newspapers. I have at least 1 source from the LA Times that quotes ' "This notion of Jim Crow in Baseball's Heaven is appalling," Jim Murray wrote in 1971 in this newspaper. "What is this -- 1840? Either let him in the front of the Hall -- or move the damn thing to Mississippi." '