Talk:National College of Cyber Security

College of National Security or National College of Cyber Security?
I thought that here had been a mistake over the name of this article. "National College of Cyber Security" is the phrase in these reports:

Enigma Codebreaker site to house cyber security college

Bletchley Park reactivated with planned National College of Cyber Security on site

National College of Cyber Security set to open at Bletchley Park

Bletchley Park: 'Codebreakers school' planned for site

Bletchley Park to be site of National College of Cyber Security

Spy kids: UK's first cybersecurity college for teens to open at Bletchley Park

National Museum of Computing involved in setting up cyber security college

Bletchley Park to be site of National College of Cyber Security

I thought I had seen one report using the phrase "College of National Security" but I can't find it now - perhaps an on-line error has been corrected.

--TedColes (talk) 15:59, 23 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Interesting. All but the last of the sources presently in the article give "College of National Security" as the name of the institution. Let's add the sources above to the article, edit the article to note, both names, and have a redirect from National College of Cyber Security once that page is deleted. If, at some point in the future, the institution comes into existence under a name other than "College of National Security", then the article can be moved to the new name. zazpot (talk) 16:13, 23 December 2016 (UTC)


 * In the article the first source uses the phrase "College of National Security" but it is not clear that it is quoting it as the college's title, and the quotation from Margaret Sale, who is a director of QFOR uses the phrase "National College". The second source uses both phrases. The third source uses the phrase "College of National Security". The count in favour of "National College of Cyber Security" would seem to be eight to two. --TedColes (talk) 16:28, 23 December 2016 (UTC)


 * The sources don't amount to some kind of vote on a single canonical name. When sources that are WP:RS and WP:INDEPENDENT disagree, this should be noted in the article. I have already amended the article accordingly. This is inline with the guidance at WP:Verifiability.
 * N.B. Not all of the sources in your list above are both WP:RS and WP:INDEPENDENT, in my view. I have excluded these two on that basis: NCC and Business Reporter. The International Business Times piece was already cited in the article. zazpot (talk) 16:56, 23 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Here are some more sources all of which use the phrase "National College of Cyber Security" but I don't know whether they are all both WP:RS and WP:INDEPENDENT. The first is from BT who are one of the sponsors of the college, so more likely to get the name right. It would be good to get hold of the original press release.


 * Bletchley Park to become school for 'codebreakers' - Bletchley Park, the home of Second World War codebreakers, is to become the site of the UK's first National College of Cyber Security.


 * Bletchley Park to be site of National College of Cyber Security


 * UK's first school for teenage cyber sleuths to open at wartime codebreaking centre Bletchley Park - Bletchley Park will play host to the UK's first National College of Cyber Security


 * Elite cyber defence college to open at World War Two code-breaking site Bletchley Park


 * Bletchley Park to teach teenagers to become cyber experts


 * Might it be appropriate now to withdraw the request for speedy deletion? --TedColes (talk) 17:17, 23 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Of those sources, I would say the Telegraph and Computer Weekly, at least, are both WP:RS and WP:INDEPENDENT. Feel free to add them to the article alongside the other sources of yours I already added. Thanks for tracking them down and listing them here.
 * "Might it be appropriate now to withdraw the request for speedy deletion?" I'm afraid not. No amount of sources will resolve the breaches of WP:MOVE or WP:COPYVIO. These can only be resolved by deleting National College of Cyber Security as it presently stands. As noted elsewhere, though, I'm happy for National College of Cyber Security to be recreated thereafter as a redirect to College of National Security. I will add: I would even be happy for College of National Security to be moved to National College of Cyber Security once the latter has been deleted, because a proper WP:MOVE would avoid the history loss and the consequent WP:COPYVIO breach; if this were done, then of course College of National Security should be made into a redirect to National College of Cyber Security. zazpot (talk) 18:57, 23 December 2016 (UTC)

I have found a further source that, in my mind, confirms that "National College of Cyber Security" is the correct title. It is in an e-mail from "Bletchley Park (British WW2 codebreaking site) discussion [BLETCHLEYPARK@LISTSERV.KSU.EDU]" "Thursday 24 November 2016

Elite cyber defence college to open at World War Two code-breaking site Bletchley Park -- By Cara McGoogan

The next generation of Britain's elite cyber defence force will be trained at the site where Alan Turing cracked the Enigma code, helping the Allies win the Second World War.

In a UK first, a training academy dedicated to cyber security is due to open next year at Bletchley Park, where the code-breaking work of Turing and his team helped save millions of lives. The school will nurture talented 16 to 19-year-olds with a focus on cyber security and conduct research projects in the area.

The National College of Cyber Security is part of a £50 million plan to bolster the country's defences against increasing cyber attacks. It is funded by an industry-wide initiative called Qufaro, which includes representatives from BT and the National Museum of Computing.

The College tackles a major skills gap in the UK, which leaves the UK vulnerable to severe cyber attacks. The disparity between the abilities of cyber criminals and those in defence has arisen in part because traditional schools and universities have struggled to keep pace with hackers, according to industry experts.

The news comes after a spate of attacks has seen customers lose hundreds of pounds through Deliveroo and Tesco Bank, and millions of people lose sensitive information of millions in hacks against Three and Friend Finder Networks...."

To me, accuracy of the title is more important than Wikipedia conventions in this case. The sooner the original mistake is corrected and we have an article under the title "National College of Cyber Security" and a redirect to it from "College of National Security", the better. If withdrawing my objection to speedy deletion would help towards that end, I would be happy to do so. --TedColes (talk) 07:51, 24 December 2016 (UTC)


 * "If withdrawing my objection to speedy deletion would help towards that end, I would be happy to do so." Thank you, and yes, it would help, because College of National Security cannot be moved (with its page history intact) to National College of Cyber Security while the existing article (with different history) remains in place there. I see that User:Graeme Bartlett has, I believe with the best of intentions, removed the speedy deletion template from the latter and replaced the article with a redirect, but as this does not quite achieve the desired outcome, I will add another speedy deletion template there. I have added a G7 to that template, on the basis that you and I, who are the only people who have had a hand in creating the article National College of Cyber Security, would both like to see it deleted so that College of National Security can be moved there. zazpot (talk) 18:48, 24 December 2016 (UTC)
 * So you want to move this to National College of Cyber Security? That can be arranged with db-move. Graeme Bartlett (talk) 21:26, 24 December 2016 (UTC)


 * Graeme Bartlett, thank you for grokking the above discussion and for performing the requisite deletion, move, and redirect creation. Much appreciated; great to have all of this neatly resolved. A very merry Christmas to you, and to TedColes! zazpot (talk) 03:04, 25 December 2016 (UTC)