Talk:National Constitution Center

Written like an Advertisement Tag
A museum advertises by providing information about its exhibits. Incidentally, this is also the information relevant to a Wikipedia entry about a museum. The dividing line between an advertisement and objective information is whether that information is being endorsed as especially interesting or significant. I removed two sections of this article: a quote from a Supreme Court Judge praising the Constitution center, and a bulleted list of the "exhibitions features" which read like it was straight from a museum pamphlet. With these two removed I think the article is mostly free from bias. Thoughts? FlavoredSpace (talk) 22:42, 20 September 2016 (UTC)

News
Any news on the new Exec Dir?--!!!! Joseph Torsella. Spikebrennan 04:51, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

-- This entire article reads like a press release from the entity under examination. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.222.165.65 (talk) 12:55, 7 August 2013 (UTC)

Criticism & Controversy
I'm originally from Philly and I remember when they were redeveloping Independence Mall, there was some controversy over building on land that the state had once condemned because of the need for more greenspace in Center City (also taken away for the visitor center and the huge new Liberty Bell pavilion)

Also, I've been at the NCC a few times and I personally think its exhibitions far oversimplify complex political and legal issues for fear of patronizing the relatively constitutionally uninformed masses. The result is a pretty juvenile museum. Does anyone know of any sourceable criticism of the Center along these lines? 24.207.160.25 07:05, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

New Jersey

 * Also: WP:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_103 - HTML 5 snafu

Far as I can tell, the coords are correct, yet the pushpin appears across the river in Gloucester County. Any idea what went wrong? Jim.henderson (talk) 12:58, 19 September 2012 (UTC)

Switch to use {Location_map/simple}: On 20 September 2012, I inserted a separate mapper template below the infobox, as Location_map/simple, to correctly display the map marker within Pennsylvania, rather than further south in New Jersey, across the river. There had been problems for months with Location_map used by the infobox, and attempts were made to fix the marker location by adding internal "line-height:0" in the marker's div-section style. Some users thought the marker shift was caused by using HTML 5 (triggered by tag "<!DOCTYPE html>"), but the marker shift had also occurred before the switch to HTML 5. Later, it was discovered that some other browsers also shifted the marker slightly, and on 11 April 2014, the markup in {Location_map/simple} was rewritten to reduce the map shift and retain the marker location within the Pennsylvania borders. At this point, various versions of MSIE (such as IE7) need to be tested at several user sites, and document which product versions seem to shift the marker low when the infobox map is activated. Meanwhile, other pages with maps noted in 2012 seem to have been fixed by changes to {Location_map}, but this map case (with Pennsylvania) had remained untested. See related 2012 discussion:    • "WP:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_103". Below is another example where {Location_map} had shifted the marker dot too low (to the "other side of the river") in a map of Manhattan. Compare New York maps:
 * {| style="border:1px solid #aaa" cellspacing=3


 * + Map from page "170-176 John Street Building"



Other factors considered were the CSS class names, but div-tag class="thumbinner" was found to have no effect in shifting the marker. -Wikid77 (talk) 14:55, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * }
 * Why did you switch this back now? The problem with Template:Location map has long since been fixed, and they now look identical. Jackmcbarn (talk) 18:21, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Which versions of OS+browser did you test, such as Windows Vista+IE7, or Windows 7+IE8, or which other ones have been "shifting the marker south". All reports seem to indicate the marker shifts lower ("south") when there is a positional glitch. I wish I knew more, and this week, I hope to visit several hotels with "Internet rooms" and confirm the dot-placement for various OS+browser versions. -Wikid77 (talk) 18:54, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I've tested in other browsers, and it appears that it's slightly too high in Template:Location map/simple in all cases I've seen. The issue seems to be that you're multiplying top by 99.2 instead of 100, and left by 99.9 instead of 100 (only the former produces a visible defect). Jackmcbarn (talk) 18:58, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * See below: "" as perhaps another issue which could explain why some {Location_map} markers seem correct but others shifted. -Wikid77 19:44, 11 April 2014 (UTC)

Perhaps caption shifts marker
People have reported how Template:Infobox_NRHP was improved by the 2012 fixes to show the correct marker spot in "170-176 John Street Building", but it sets "caption=" empty in Location map. However, Template:Infobox_museum had been showing the marker with a lower "south" shift, while using {Location_map} with a caption(?). Compare maps, with 2nd omitting the caption:
 * {| style="border:1px solid #aaa" cellspacing=3
 * + Map from page "170-176 John Street Building"
 * With {Location map/simple}
 * With {Location map/simple}


 * With {Location map} - no caption

So, what happens when the "caption=" is not empty (and shifts the marker lower), where the caption div-section could shift the relative placement of the marker+label, and is this related to a "line-height:0" problem in the caption portion of the map? I am too busy to do much more this hour, but perhaps could compare generated HTML several hours from now. We need people to run more tests with IE7 and IE8. -Wikid77 (talk) 19:44, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * }


 * For clarity, I've reproduced the 4 cases above. At first glance, it seems that Template:Location map displays the point in the same place whether there is a caption or not, and Template:Location map/simple displays the point higher when a caption is not present . I'm investigating further now. Jackmcbarn (talk) 19:52, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I analyzed the 4 combinations. Location map with a caption is identical to location map without a caption, and location map/simple with a caption is identical to location map/simple without a caption. However, location map/simple displays the mark 1 pixel further to the left than location map does. Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:02, 11 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The large versions above exhibit the same result as the normal-sized templates. In this case, location map/simple renders the mark 1 pixel to the left and 3 pixels higher than location map, and presence/absence of the caption does not affect this. This result makes sense, because of the 99.2 and 99.9 being used in Template:Location map/simple for unknown reasons. Jackmcbarn (talk) 20:13, 11 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I have added the exact lat_sec=21.3 & lon_sec=15.6, for the enlarged maps, and now the marker appears correctly in Manhattan with both map templates. -Wikid77 22:13, 15 April 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for posting those. I look forward to hearing the reasoning behind those odd scale factors.

I restored the map to the infobox a short while ago. The only reason I could see for using a separate map was the missing map label and that was easily added. I'm unsure whether it needs a map label + caption, or what they should both be, but they're easy to change if anyone has a better idea.

I note you post here "evidence is growing" that older browsers shift the map marker down, but you've yet to provide any evidence. Please provide screenshots - if you don't have access to a machine with such browsers there are many sites you can use.-- JohnBlackburne wordsdeeds 21:02, 11 April 2014 (UTC)


 * As no-one else seems to have I did a test, using a clean install of XP (done onto a Bootcamp partition of an old Macbook a while ago but never used), of IE6 as its browser, did a screenshot and uploaded it. It confirms that Location map misplaces the map marker when there's a caption. I don't know if this is something to worry about - the most recent stats say IE6 accounts for 0.24% of all requests/0.99% of all page views - there's quite a difference between the figures, suggesting it's not getting files that other browsers find essential. But more generally I don't know how much heed we need to pay to a ten year old badly broken browser that hardly anyone uses.-- JohnBlackburne wordsdeeds 13:32, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Okay, I figured that part out. The width of the relative div needs to be specified explicitly. I've fixed that in Module:Location map. John, can you take another screenshot and see if it's fixed now for you? Jackmcbarn (talk) 15:49, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I also noticed and removed a stray closing div in Template:Location map/simple. Jackmcbarn (talk) 17:47, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I've created some specialized maps and markers for the purpose of testing this: File:Image overlay position tester.png, File:Image overlay position tester mark.png, and File:Image overlay position tester reference.png. See the top of Special:Permalink/603918736 for the results of this test. It reveals that on all modern browsers, Template:Location map places the marks with perfect pixel accuracy (as evidenced by the solid gray box), while Template:Location map/simple is slightly off (as evidenced by the strange colors rather than gray in most of the box). Results for IE6 appear inconclusive, as it doesn't support the type of transparency that this test uses. Jackmcbarn (talk) 19:36, 12 April 2014 (UTC)


 * The above test, as shown in the screenshot I uploaded earlier, now looks fine i.e. identical with and without the caption in IE6, as seen in the new screenshot.-- JohnBlackburne wordsdeeds 20:04, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree, for me things look the same now in IE6, IE7 and modern browsers. Any positioning glitches that are left have to do with either inaccuracies in the coordinates, or possibly some rounding errors in the math. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 10:15, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Gray border
I couldn't see major differences between other browsers and IE7. But when there is a caption, there is a 1px gray border on the position frame that holds the image. If you know about CSS boxmodel, you will realize that any image with a caption will thus have 2 px short on the width of frame (the 720px big images above only get 718px frame), skewing the percentage and the position of the marker. DON'T put borders on the position frame that holds the image and the markers. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 10:02, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Eh, no, that's not a problem either. it seems that that was caused by some custom css that i had, that created 2 borders in this case. —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 10:13, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Template:Location map already accounts for the problem in any case, as it explicitly sets the width of the border div to width+2 and the div used for positioning to width. Jackmcbarn (talk) 12:10, 12 April 2014 (UTC)
 * Like i said, i had an additional border. Lua code can't account for stuff that I do :D —Th e DJ (talk • contribs) 09:40, 13 April 2014 (UTC)

Updating the National Constitution Center Page
I work for the National Constitution Center and I'd like to make some updates to the page. There are currently inaccuracies and out-of-date information and I'd love to help improve the page. Should I post suggested edits here, in the talk page?Housefinch1787 (talk) 19:59, 22 July 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Housefinch1787 (talk • contribs) 19:57, 22 July 2019 (UTC)

Below are the edits I'd like to suggest for the National Constitution Center Page:

Edit 1: Delete “houses the Annenberg Center for Education and Outreach, which” In the first paragraph. The new sentence should read: The center offers civic learning resources onsite and online. The reason for this edit is because the Annenberg center doesn’t exist anymore.

Edit 2: Add citation to Background section: citation should go after the sentence, “The Center shall disseminate information about the United States Constitution on a non-partisan basis in order to increase the awareness and understanding of the Constitution among the American people.”

Edit 3: Add Bill Clinton in Leadership section: George H. W. Bush was chairman from 2007-2009 (not 2013) Bill Clinton was chairman from 2009-2012

Edit 4: Combine Main Exhibition and Featured Exhibition Sections: The information in these sections is very out of date, and contains misinformation. The new combined section, titled “Main exhibition” should read as follows:

The museum’s original components include Freedom Rising, The Story of We the People, and Signer’s Hall. Freedom Rising is the 17-minute, 360° theatrical production in the Sidney Kimmel Theater tracing the American quest for freedom. The Story of We the People exhibit in the Richard and Helen DeVos Exhibition Hall is an interactive exhibition highlighting the history of the Constitution with over 100 hands-on and multimedia exhibits. The Signers' Hall is a stylized evocation of the Assembly Room in the Pennsylvania State House (now known as Independence Hall), where the signers of the Constitution met on September 17, 1787. The room has life-sized, bronze statues.

Since 2014, the center has also featured Constituting Liberty: From the Declaration to the Bill of Rights, which includes displays of a first edition Stone Engraving of the Declaration of Independence, a rare copy of the first public printing of the U.S. Constitution, and one of the 12 surviving copies of the Bill of Rights in the George H.W. Bush Gallery.

In 2017, the center added American Treasures: Documenting the Nation’s Founding in the rare document gallery, featuring five drafts of the U.S. Constitution, including Pennsylvania delegate James Wilson's own handwritten drafts.

In 2019, the center opened Civil War and Reconstruction: The Battle for Freedom and Equality, a permanent exhibit which includes over 100 artifacts such as original copies of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments.

Edit 5: Update Civic Education Section: The wording of this section needs to change because the Annenberg center doesn’t exist anymore. It also needs to be updated to reflect the ongoing efforts of the Center to provide a platform for civic education. The section should read:

Originally through its Annenberg Center for Education and Outreach, the center has offered onsite and online civic-education programs and develops and distributes teaching tools, lesson plans and resources. In September 2006 the center helped launch Constitution High School, a college-preparatory, citywide magnet school and "the only Philadelphia School District high school whose theme is [sic] Law, Democracy, and History."

In 2015, the center launched the Interactive Constitution, a platform which brings together the top conservative and liberal legal scholars in America to discuss areas of agreement and disagreement about every clause of the Constitution.

Edit 6: Update Public Engagement Section: The listing of people who have been guests of the NCC is out of date George W. Bush should be added to the presidents section, and Anthony M. Kennedy and Samuel A. Alito should be added to the list of supreme court justices. Section should read as follows:

As a national town hall, the center has welcomed former presidents, Supreme Court justices, journalists, pundits, scholars and entertainers at political discussions and book events. Guests include Presidents Barack Obama, George H. W. Bush, George W. Bush, and Bill Clinton; Secretary of State Hillary Clinton; Vice President Dick Cheney; First Lady Laura Bush; Supreme Court Justices Sandra Day O'Connor, Antonin Scalia, Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg, Anthony M. Kennedy, Samuel A. Alito, and Sonia Sotomayor; Newt Gingrich; Karl Rove; Donna Brazile, and journalists Tavis Smiley, Gwen Ifill, Tina Brown, Andrea Mitchell and Tom Brokaw. The center has hosted several debates, including a 2008 Democratic presidential primary debate between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama a town hall meeting with Senator John McCain, and a 2006 Pennsylvania Senatorial debate between Republican incumbent Rick Santorum and Democratic challenger Bob Casey.

Edit 7: Update Liberty Medal Section: Liberty medal section currently doesn't have anyone named that has won it in the past few years. Update this section to name the most recent ten winners. Section should read:

In 2006 the center became home to the Liberty Medal, an annual award established in 1988 to recognize "men and women of courage and conviction who strive to secure the blessings of liberty to people around the globe." Recent Liberty Medal recipients have included George W. Bush and Laura Bush, Senator John McCain, John Lewis, the Dalai Lama, Hillary Clinton, Muhammad Ali, Robert Gates, Tony Blair, and Steven Spielberg.

Edit 8: Remove Jeffrey Rosen from the Presidential involvement section: The section should read:

Former President George H. W. Bush became chairman of the center's board of trustees in 2007. His successor as chair, Bill Clinton, served from 2009 to 2012. On March 18, 2008, while campaigning for the presidency, Senator Barack Obama delivered a speech on racial issues ("A More Perfect Union") at the center. The center hosted Senators Obama and Hillary Clinton for their Pennsylvania presidential-primary debate on April 16 of that year.

Edit 9: The Artifacts Section does not reflect the artifacts that the NCC currently has: Section should read:

Two days after the Constitution was signed its text was printed in the Pennsylvania Packet and Daily Advertiser, a local newspaper. A rare copy of this first publication is housed at the center in the George H. W. Bush Gallery adjacent to Signers' Hall. The center received its copy on September 11, 2001. Additionally in the George H.W. Bush Gallery, the center has on display a first edition Stone Engraving of the Declaration of Independence and a reproduction of one of the 12 surviving copies of the Bill of Rights.

Civil War and Reconstruction features over 100 artifacts, including original copies of the 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments, Dred Scott’s signed petition for freedom, a pike purchased by John Brown for the armed raid at Harper’s Ferry to incite a revolt against slavery, a fragment of the flag that Abraham Lincoln raised at Independence Hall in Philadelphia in 1861, and a ballot box marked “colored” from Virginia’s first statewide election that allowed black men to vote in 1867.

Housefinch1787 (talk) 20:26, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Reply 27-JUL-2019
Below you will see where proposals from your request have been quoted with reviewer decisions and feedback inserted underneath, either accepting, declining or otherwise commenting upon your proposal(s). Please read the enclosed notes within the proposal review section below for information on each request. Spintendo 19:07, 27 July 2019 (UTC)