Talk:National Graves Association

Irish name of the Association
The Association's website says that it's name in Irish is Cumainn Uaigheann na Laochra Gael. The Irish version presented here appears to be a translation of the English title National Graves Association rather than the organisation's own official Irish title. I'm intending to change it to the Irish version actually used by the Assocition. 81.104.164.93 (talk) 19:45, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

Merge
I propose that we merge National Graves Association, Belfast to this article, given the guidance at: Notability (organizations and companies). Rockpock e  t  00:14, 14 November 2009 (UTC)

I disagree with this proposal

National Graves Association,Belfast and 'National Graves Association', are clearly separate organisations. The Belfast association is focused geographically on Belfast, whereas the Dublin association, as can be seen from the following extracts from letters and newspaper articles, would appear to have no influence outside of Dublin.

I draw your attention to the following article which originally appeared in the Irish News and which now can be seen on newshound. http://www.nuzhound.com/articles/irish_news/arts2003/dec11_republican_graves.php

Republican graves groups in dispute (Darran McCann, Irish News) A dispute has arisen between two groups which are dedicated to maintaining republican graves. The National Graves Association (NGA), based in Dublin, has disassociated itself from renovation work carried out at Belfast's Milltown Cemetery. The republican memorial was unveiled on Sunday under the auspices of the National Graves Association, Belfast. However the Dublin-based National Graves Association has said the memorial has nothing to do with them and that the Belfast association should not style itself as 'national'. "We are the National Graves Association, we were founded in 1926," Matt Doyle, secretary of the Dublin-based NGA, said. "There is no Belfast National Graves Association. "We have representation in all 32 counties and when you think about it, the name Belfast National Graves Association is a contradiction in terms," he said. He said all the regional branches had been disbanded in 1988 and affiliation to political parties had ceased following the 1986 split in Sinn Féin. "We're not distancing ourselves, it's just that (the Milltown memorial) has nothing to do with us," he said. Mr Doyle said the Belfast association did "tremendous work" which he endorsed and welcomed. However Liam Shannon of the Belfast-based NGA disputed Mr Doyle's assertion. "We are the National Graves Association in the Belfast area. We look after the graves and memorials in Belfast, they look after the graves in Dublin," he said. "(The NGA) is a national organisation in name only really. "We would network together with the NGA in Tyrone, the NGA in Derry and so on. "We have assisted the National Graves Association in Dublin in the past, including financially," he said. Mr Shannon said the Belfast NGA was a charitable organisation. December 26, 2003 ________________ This article appeared first in the December 11, 2003 edition of the Irish News.

Mr Doyle clearly states that the 'Milltown Memorial' is nothing to do with his association but as the memorial in question is the republican plot in which 77 IRA Volunteers are buried and which is maintained by the Belfast based association, then they are obviously separate groups.

Both groups differ significantly in that The Belfast Association is, as Mr Shannon points out, a "charitable organisation" whereas the Dublin association "in 1992 became a registered limited company worldwide". (see Letter by Mr Doyle to Republican News 27th August 1998 http://www.anphoblacht.com/letters/1998-08-27

Again in An Phoblacht 10th November 2000 http://republican-news.org/archive/2000/November09/10sout.html I draw your attention to the following: "... the DUP's Billy Alexander, who is threatening legal action to prevent moves by the South Down National Graves Association (SDNGA) to buy the plot in Dunleath Park, in Downpatrick. ........

....It was at this point that the SDNGA got involved and offered to purchase the land and Liam Shannon of the Belfast National Graves Association along with representatives of the SDNGA met with Norman Stewart.

At that meeting, according to Liam Shannon, ``we made Mr Stewart aware of who we were and of our interest in the site and its upkeep. Everything was agreed except a purchase price''.

Following this meeting, the Dublin-based National Graves Association Ireland intervened, saying said that neither the South Down National Graves Association nor the Belfast National Graves Association had anything to do with the Dublin-based group." —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mil 09 (talk • contribs) 01:41, 14 November 2009 (UTC)


 * Hello Mil 09. Ok, I was not aware that the two groups were entirely separate. Perhaps it might be worth mentioning this in the articles themselves, giving the obvious similarities. I'll remove the merge proposal. However, I do have a number of concerns about establishing notability, the reliability of the sources and general content of the article. However, I'll mention those on the article's talk page. Rockpock  e  t  21:18, 14 November 2009 (UTC)