Talk:National Independence Day (Poland)

DISPUTED

 * "pray for islamic holocaust" - Poznań 17.11.2015
 * "Clear blood" - "Clear blood, SOBER mind"
 * fatherland <- 'Ojczyzna' -> homeland - this polish word have diffrent connotation then english one.
 * also - fact that most of racist was done not by ONR or other organizers of march but by NIKLOT and Szturmowcy,

practicaly all to rework...

lies
I would just like to say that I don't have the time, energy and motivation to deal with this kind of petty lies, but the paragraph about this years Independence March is basically propaganda. For primers, I know people that take part in this march, and to say it's 60 thousands white nationalists is a blatant lie. Entire paragraph is basically a one-sided and highly exaggerated perspective. This is what you get when you become a source of information on political subjects. Some pathetic, petty people without backbone will just come and try to abuse wikipedia. Do whatever you want, nobody reasonable takes anything on wikipedia verbatim anymore. 01:37, 17 November 2017 (UTC)31.182.202.72 (talk)

chanting "Death to enemies of the homeland" and "Catholic Poland, not secular"

 * How to estimate what 60 000 poeople chant?
 * How to estimate how many participants chant and how many don't?
 * The fake news should be removed.Xx236 (talk) 07:32, 14 November 2018 (UTC)
 * organized by the ONR and other far-right groups - the march was organized by a comittee, not directly by the ONR.Xx236 (talk) 07:35, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

March of Independence in Warsaw
The March should obtain a separate page. Xx236 (talk) 07:38, 14 November 2018 (UTC)

Controversions ?
The section describes only the Warsaw march, both basic informations and controversions. I don't think that a general Controversions section would be useful, because there exist many controversions, both pre-war and contemporary ones. As far noone has adressed them. It's the reason I have proposed to create a separate page about the March or to rename this section.Xx236 (talk) 14:05, 14 November 2018 (UTC)


 * The paragraph "Controversies" presents a lot of false information about the March of Independence in Warsaw and the "extremists" (eg celebrating families with young children). In fact, this is an extreme position of left-liberal political circles, cosmopolitans, for whom Polish national traditions are a source of shame, not pride. This was the previous Polish government (which fortunately lost the elections in 2015), which inspired various provocations to disgrace the Polish Independence Day March. Also this year (2021), the left-liberal president of Warsaw tried to outlaw this March, which was prevented by the current government, granting it the status of a state event.

--Muzyk98 (talk) 02:35, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

- What you wrote is clear bias and right wing extremists did take advantage of the march. This is a fact, which Wikipedia is based on. Let it be. Merangs (talk) 06:49, 11 November 2021 (UTC)

Congratulations on your good frame of mind, but is not a bias, but reality. What we read in "Controversies" is clear manipulation. The paragraph "Controversies" in my opinion presenting a one-sided and biased point of view. But that's nothing new. Left-liberal cosmopolitan views (according to which, for example, patriotism is "extremism" or "fascism", because patriotism disgusts the left) are breaking through in Wikipedia, and Wikipedia turns from an encyclopedia into a propaganda medium. Furthermore, this statement is contrary to Wikipedia's assumptions. Who is Wikipedia? It is not Wikipedia, but individual people who hide behind Wikipedia, present this point of view, and try to convince readers that it is only the right one.

This is confirmed by your statement: "right wing extremists did take advantage of the march. This is a fact, which Wikipedia is based on." - so it is about writing with a predetermined thesis. If one were to reliably approach the issue, one would have to define "right wing extremists", and then indicate how the organizers and participants of the March correspond to this definition. Otherwise, it is just sticking a label that means nothing but destroys the good name of the organizers and participants of the March.

This year's Warsaw march with a large share of families with children or people from different continents (guests from all over Europe, Africans, Asians...) clearly contradicts this thesis. There are also Polish combatants who fought against both German Hitlerism and Soviet Communism and experienced unprecedented cruelty in the 1940s and 1950s. Even the mayor of Warsaw, declared opponent of the march, who did everything to prevent the event, admitted publicly that there were no excesses on the march, and the police detained ca. 10 people (ca. 150,000 people took part in the march) for... possession of drugs.

--Muzyk98 (talk) 01:52, 13 November 2021 (UTC)