Talk:National Junior Classical League

notable events
these have been in place for a substantial amount of time without any edits. reconsider that the history of the njcl reaches far further back than 1992. removing them is a clear disregard for this prominent organization's history, and deviations from the norm. Impasse 04:10, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I am a member of this great organization, and these are not notable. Remember that this article is for everyone, member of JCL or not, and these are not notable for most of them.  Perhaps you could integrate them into the prose of the article and havthem not be so long, but they do not deserve so long a section.   Reywas92 Talk  13:09, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

 njcl is cool —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.226.200.27 (talk) 21:23, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Officer Nicknames
I have little patience for these, and will delete them unless a good reason is given for their continued existence. They are irrelevant, and inside jokes, and as such, not to Wikipedia standards. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.6.148.175 (talk) 05:36, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

"Sic" in lyrics
In the lyrics of the NJCL song, "everyday" is used incorrectly as an adverb. We follow it with a bracketed "sic" to indicate that the error was in the source, and was not the work of a careless or semiliterate WP editor. See Template:Sic.

--Ammodramus (talk) 12:02, 13 May 2010 (UTC)


 * How do you know that "everyday" -- as an adjective -- is not modifying the "we" in "we're"? An adjective is usually placed next to the noun it modifies, but a song with rhyming lines may indicate otherwise.  Arguably, "everyday" -- while modifying "we" -- was placed at the end of its line to rhyme with "every way" in the following line.  If that's not the case (i.e., that sic belongs), find a reliable source to verify your claim.  MisterE2123Five5 (talk) 00:09, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That makes absolutely no sense. "Everyday" modifies "growing" and is spelled wrong. How could it possibly modify "we"? If that's the case, find a reliable source for that nonsensical grammar. I have sent an email requesting correction. Reywas92 Talk 01:10, 14 May 2010 (UTC)
 * While the error has been copied to other texts, the at least following have it right:, , . Reywas92 Talk 01:27, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I agree that everyday doesn't make much sense as an adjective. My main point was that there was no reliable source verifying this.  Apparently you have found such sources, so thank you for your efforts. MisterE2123Five5 (talk) 04:27, 14 May 2010 (UTC)


 * I've restored the " [sic]" after "everyday". Is there any remaining disagreement that it's an error in English usage?  If so, I'd be happy to make a case for it.  If there's general agreement, then the "sic" is appropriate and desirable, as a means of telling the world that WP editors, at least, know that "everyday" is not an adverb.


 * Given the subject of the article, I'm curious: Do Greek and Latin distinguish between adjectives and adverbs, or does the same form serve for both (as is the case with German)? I'd thought that Latin, at least, was a highly inflected language, and it seems a bit odd to me that in an organization dedicated to the study of such a language, no one would've loudly and enthusiastically called attention to such a grammatical solecism in the official song.


 * --Ammodramus (talk) 18:23, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

notes on jcl song singing and other "unsourced" "original research"
archiving here from

sawyer clearly has his own opinion about what is and is not notable or original research; despite being a very active editor, he does not appear to have actually attended a national njcl convention, or otherwise participated in these activities other than from the outside, hence his blatant dismissal of what otherwise is notable to those looking for a history of certain deviance from the norm, particularly longtime goers. as he likes to revert my edits and i haven't monitored this article in a while, i figure i'd add it all back here, so anyone who might be looking for it might more easily find it.

below the song section: Delegates generally join arms and sway as they sing except at the lines "In knowledge, truth, and fellowship we're growing every day/The friendly hand of J-C-L!" and at the last three words of the song, where they clap in unison. On "J-C-L" however, the clapping changes to fist pumps, before returning to swaying. The lines ending in "hold" and "Gold" are also held dramatically at those words, making the last line of the song awkward. Typically these performances are sung a cappella, or accompanied by piano. The one exception to this ever made was at the 2006 convention at Indiana University, where an organist led the initial performance of the NJCL Song.

below the creed section: The last line is read with increasing volume, to shouting by the end, always followed by extensive cheering.

that's entertainment section (last paragraph): A popular event is the talent show, known as That's Entertainment!, always held on the night before the final farewell dance. It consists of skits put on by the NSCL between the individual acts, and since around 1985, a final surprise performance from a group of three mysterious men in suits and sunglasses, known by most JCLers only as the Racketeers (for the matching red tennis racket bags they wear on their heads). They walk on stage, perform a silent dance routine to a mixtape-type compilation, and walk off. The Racketeers made an appearance at without one of its usual three members three times, most recently in 2007 and again in 2009. In his place was an equally mysterious woman, the first time since the 1993 Convention that this kind of substitution has occurred.

the publications section: Torch: U.S. is the NJCL's official publication, which details the events of the organization, reports scores, and issues stories. Published four times a year, the only issue sent to all convention attendees (including non-subscribers) is the fall issue, shortly after convention. Until recently, this convention highlights issue included the contact information of all delegates in attendance for keeping in touch, but given the prominence of online communication and cost/space concerns, is no longer included. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Impasse (talk • contribs) 02:15, 27 June 2011 (UTC)


 * Cut the crap, I've been to three state conventions and two national conventions and will be attending next month's in Kentucky. You don't seem to understand that this is an encyclopedia and not a JCL forum or fan site, a better place to collect your "deviances from the norm". First, while most of this information may be accurate, Wikipedia requires WP:reliable sources to back up information, not personal anecdotes. Second, this isn't a place for every little detail about events. We only include the notable facts that would be relevant to those not already familiar to JCL, without fluff only understood or appreciated by the JCL/SCL universe. Besides, some of this isn't even true - the Susan Schearer version of the song is not sung the same, and "The one exception to this ever made" is just wrong - the song is always sung with accompaniment at the Indiana convention and probably others. This is just written poorly: "making the last line of the song awkward" - No, it's called a fermata and awkwardness is subjective. And if the Racketeers always appear, it's not a surprise performance. If they are "mysterious men", then how do we actually know a usual member didn't appear? About the Torch, I think there's much better information we can include than an explanation of a previous section's removal. I would be delighted to collaborate on this article with you, but on adding important, encyclopedic information, not details about - and exceptions to - inside jokes. Thanks, Reywas92 Talk 18:15, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

National convention table
As the editor who added all convention data prior to 1995 (see edit here), I certainly don't mind if every convention year is visible. I do mind if every convention is hidden, as was the case here.  Levdr1 lp  ( talk ) 18:44, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't either, but a friend and I were talking about it, and it is a bit cumbersome to read (i.e., long), but I wonder if you would be willing to compromise at having ten visible and collapsing the rest (or better yet, split the page, and expand on the details for every convention). Kevin Rutherford (talk) 20:19, 20 August 2012 (UTC)
 * To clarify, Ktr101 opted to collapse every convention listing, whereas Reywas92 opted to expand every convention listing. After adding the fully expanded table more than a year ago, I offered a semi-collapsed table as a compromise (after Ktr101, but before Reywas92).  As for the convention section itself, I see no need to split if off.  Conventions are more or less the same series of events every year and are not sufficiently notable to merit a separate article.   Levdr1 lp  ( talk ) 00:49, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I meant to have the entire list split off, not a page for every convention, just so you know. Kevin Rutherford (talk) 02:00, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, I understand. One separate page for all national conventions.  And no, I don't think such a page is nearly notable enough on its own.   Levdr1 lp  ( talk ) 02:08, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

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"Latin convention" listed at Redirects for discussion
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