Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Cincinnati

Majestic
Both MAJESTIC & SHOWBOAT MAJESTIC are listed in the NRHP database. Are these two different boats? If so, the links in the WP list shouldn't point to the same article. If not, one of the rows should be deleted from the table. --Sanfranman59 (talk) 22:43, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Splitting into several pieces
With 240 entries, this list is way too long and needs to be divided into several sublists. It's the standard practice of the National Register wikiproject to divide overlarge lists geographically (see what's been done at the Denver list), but I really don't know how best to split the city, so I'd like opinions. My only suggestions are (1) one sublist for downtown, and (2) using Vine Street to divide the rest of the city into eastern and western pieces. However, three sublists (downtown, east, and west) will likely still be too large, so I think that we'll need a good north-south division point: but what would it be? I should note that it's best to get lists of approximately equal size, if possible; to see where each site is, click the "Map of all coordinates from Google" link (warning: it doesn't always work) and you'll get a Google map of Hamilton County with a marker at each location. Nyttend (talk) 00:44, 30 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I've posted requests for help at the Ohio wikiproject talk page and at several editors' talk pages. I've copied to here a couple of different suggestions that were originally posted at user talk pages.  Nyttend (talk) 00:52, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions
Greg 5030 says:

I propose the following divisions:
 * Central Business District: South to the river East to I71 (after it turns north) North to Central Parkway West to I75
 * Cincinnati East Everything east of I-71
 * Cincinnati West Everything west of I-75 up to the split with I74 Everything west of I-74 north of the split with I-75
 * Cincinnati North East of I-75 West of I-71 North of Central Parkway
 * Cincinnati West would be the smallest at 13-15 listings
 * Let me know what you think. Regards, Greg Hume (talk) 18:04, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Nyttend replies: I wonder, however, about the significantly different sizes of the lists that would result. I've thought of a new possible division: This looks to me as if it would result in lists that are more equally balanced. Since Vine is the east-west meridian, I'd like to use it if possible, and I'd also find it rather odd to classify structures on the southern edge of Over-the-Rhine as being in northern Cincinnati. What do you think? Nyttend (talk) 00:40, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Downtown as you defined it, except with its eastern boundary being I-471 between I-71 and the river
 * North as being north and east of a line: following I-74 from the city's western edge to I-75, then down I-75 to Martin Luther King Dr., along it to the I-71 interchange, and then following it to the city's eastern edge
 * East as being everything between Downtown and North that's east of Vine Street
 * West as being everything between Downtown and North that's west of Vine Street
 * I've worked out where each site will go if we adopt this plan:
 * Downtown, 50
 * North, 53
 * East, 99
 * West, 38
 * Unidentified, 1
 * There are two anomalies — the Over-the-Rhine Historic District and the Cincinnati Street Gas Lamps. Due to a non-specific description, I cannot determine where the Cincinnati Street Gas Lamps will be placed — they are at least within my proposed northern region, but they may extend into other regions as well — while the Over-the-Rhine Historic District is split between East and West.  Nyttend (talk) 03:27, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

akmarch replies: Using Vine Street as an east-west division makes sense.

Here's what I propose:
 * Anything outside of Hamilton County should be its own category.
 * The second category would be any listings within the limits of the City of Cincinnati. This includes areas outside of downtown like Price Hill, Westwood, Mount Washington, Madisonville, etc.
 * The third category would be anything to the west of Vine Street not already accounted for.
 * A fourth category would be used for anything to the east of Vine Street not already accounted for.
 * If a north-south division is needed in the western or eastern divisions, the Ronald Reagan highway (SR126) could be used with "imaginary extensions" to either side of the county.

Without the Reagan highway division, the zones would look something like this. This example uses Vine Street, Clifton, Avenue, and Winton Road as the east-west division.

--akmarch (talk) 04:33, 5 February 2010 (UTC) Please offer any more comments below.
 * I'm confused. If I understand you rightly, you want one list for Cincinnati, one list for eastern Hamilton County outside Cincinnati, and one list for western Hamilton County outside Cincinnati.  Why split the parts of the county outside Cincinnati?  That list is of reasonable size; it's the city list that needs to be split into pieces.  Nyttend (talk) 05:03, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * This list does just include items within the city limits (except for Clough Creek and Sand Ridge Archeological district - I'm not sure where that is specifically, but Clough Creek itself is in Anderson Township). An east/west divider might work well. Oldiesmann (talk) 06:24, 5 February 2010 (UTC)
 * That's what confuses me; it sounds to me as if Akmarch is suggesting splitting the overall county list, not the city list. The problem with the CC&SR District is that it's address-restricted; I've tried to find it (and I did find the creek), but not the ridge, and references to the district itself are few and far between.  There are two other address-restricted sites in the city, but both are plainly in Sayler Park, so CC&SR is the only one that's likely not in the city.  Nyttend (talk) 14:04, 5 February 2010 (UTC)

Nyttend is correct. I am suggesting splitting the county list. As far as items outside Hamilton County (if there are any...I haven't studied the list well enough to know if it's a "Greater Cincinnati" list), I see no reason to split east-west. My suggestions are just for items within the county. This approach makes the most sense from a Cincinnati-minded view because many of the area communities are still considered "Cincinnati." For example, someone who lives in Delhi (not within the city limits) would still consider himself a Cincinnatian. A native Cincinnatian myself, we tend to view "Cincinnati" as being Hamilton and many surrounding counties - not just the area within the city limits. --akmarch (talk) 04:10, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry to have confused you: this list is exclusively within the city limits. List of sites on the National Register of Historic Places are given by county, but when there are too many sites in a county, we generally split out a separate list for the largest municipality.  This is the case here — only sites strictly within the city of Cincinnati are included on this list.  There's a separate list for the rest of Hamilton County (National Register of Historic Places listings in Hamilton County, Ohio), and each of the other 87 counties in Ohio has its own list.  Counties in Kentucky and Indiana have their own lists, too.  Nyttend (talk) 14:50, 6 February 2010 (UTC)

I can agree with Nyttend on the dividing lines. Using Vine street as the east-west division is traditional. The area immediately north of downtown does have a number of structures that could be considered downtown since they are on the flood plain, but including them makes the downtown division much larger (not great), the east division smaller (good) and the west division smaller (bad). The east west division is most problematic for Over-the-Rhine since it straddles Vine Street - I would tend to make an exception and consider it downtown to avoid the east west problem. The gaslight district is limited to Clifton (north) to my knowledge. The large number of structures in the east division is probably not a problem since several of the structures along eastern avenue have been demolished. Are they supposed to be removed from the NRHP if that happens? Greg Hume (talk) 17:14, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Downtown, 50
 * North, 54
 * East, 99
 * West, 38
 * With Greg's information on the gas lights, this is how we'd end up dividing our sites if we went with my proposed boundaries. It's not a problem for a district (or even a property) to be split between lists; for example, the Denver and Philadelphia lists work fine despite having duplicates, including one site that's on three different Philadelphia lists.  I don't think we should move the Over-the-Rhine HD without moving all the individual properties that are in Over-the-Rhine: it's not consistent to say that Old St. Mary's Church is in eastern Cincinnati while saying that it's part of a district that is entirely in downtown Cincinnati.  As far as the demolished houses — they're likely to be removed eventually, but all we can do is to note them at WP:NRIS issues.  From here, they're reported to NRHP staffers, who will consult with the Ohio State Historic Preservation Office.  Nyttend (talk) 18:06, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Just got a location for the Clough Creek site; it's in Anderson Township, not Cincinnati, so I've moved it to the Hamilton County list. Our total is now 239, and East will now be 98 if we go with my proposal.  Nyttend (talk) 23:37, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Yet another addition: the Sedamsville River Road Historic District (West) was somehow left off the list. We now should have:
 * Downtown, 50
 * North, 54
 * East, 98
 * West, 39
 * Nyttend (talk) 18:02, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
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