Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in New York/Archive 1

Applications for New York NRHP Sites
Propose pulling out New York City Boroughs and pasting into a List of Registered Historic Places in New York City to cut down the file size approximately in half -- Dogears (talk) 21:17, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
 * done long ago, now down to 1 county per list. doncram (talk) 02:08, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Clickable map of NYS counties needed
Anyone willing to spend a little time creating a clickable map version of the existing map of NYS counties? I would like to have a clickable version in List of RHPs in NY. Although i haven't figured out how to, there are other wikipedians who know how to do this, including Ebyabe who did it for the Florida counties map. doncram (talk) 16:43, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

Multiple Resource Area
I justed posted a question to Talk:National Register of Historic Places about MRA's. There are 95 in New York State alone http://www.nps.gov/history/nr/research/mpslist.htm and I don't see them listed here. My question arose after seeing 270 properties listed in East Hampton Village on its MRA. http://www.oprhp.state.ny.us/hpimaging/hp_view.asp?GroupView=100354 All but 20 were in existing districts but those additional 20 are significant in themselves. Americasroof (talk) 20:03, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

"Working" columns need to move out of mainspace
I came across this page during the discussion about disambiguation pages for NRHP sites, and noticed that it currently has a column labelled "Table-ization complete (disambigs and other info in prior list fully processed)". This really isn't appropriate for an article in mainspace, where readers may come across it. This sort of "work in progress" listing should be in project space, or user space. I gather that these list pages are in transition from simple lists to tables, which is fine — but we don't need to show that to readers who might simply want to find a particular NRHP listing. Would anyone mind if the table were copied to somewhere like WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/New York, and the "table-ization" column deleted from this article?

Also, are there other NRHP lists in the mainspace which contain "in progress" notes like this? If so, they should be moved as well. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:14, 26 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Ah, yes, you're absolutely right. I put it in when i thought it would be really very temporary, but it has turned out to be a far bigger job.  NY has, by the way, probably the highest number of NRHP sites.  And no, there are no others like it in mainspace, others have not chosen to work this way.  There are several other to-do lists of NRHP tasks, but all in wikipedia or userpage space.  I'll move the tally somewhere. doncram (talk) 03:25, 28 September 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks for moving the "in progress" bits out of the mainspace article. This talk page is a perfectly acceptable location. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 06:43, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

Formatting / other of this list-table
Mwanner added pics and suggested dropping row numbers here. I went to delete the row numbers, per the suggestion, but then I see/recall that Dutchess, Manhattan, and other counties are subdivided so there are rows 14.1, 14.2, etc. The numbering sorts them into that. There needs to be some more complicated format used so that the Dutchess ones stay together and/or you can get back to that, if you sort by count. Need to find some format examples from some wp:FL Featured Lists, perhaps? Do let's improve this. doncram (talk) 17:10, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * No, I hadn't seen the discussion at wt:NRHP. So I gather you would approve of the picture per county for the NY list; I may try to get to it soon.  And sorry I missed the function of the decimal, but given that the names of the Dutchess lists all start with "Dutchess...", they would still stay together in any alpha sort (same with "New York (Manhattan)...", etc.).  So it still seems to me that the ordinal column is unneeded (but maybe I'm missing something?) -- Mwanner | Talk 17:21, 19 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not at all obvious to me that the table in this article needs to list the sub-county articles for Poughkeepsie, Rhinebeck, sections of Manhattan, etc. Why not limit the list to the counties? --Orlady (talk) 17:29, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Because, the statewide list article is providing an index to the sublists, too. Providing an index to all of the geographic list-articles provides a service to readers who are trying to get to one of those subareas, and saves them from being forced to go through more layers to get to where they want.  There will be some readers interested in sublist for Poughkeepsie who do not know which county Poughkeepsie it is in, for example.  Also, by including the sublayers conveniently along with the higher layer, it clarifies what the higher layer is.  For example, having 6 sublists for New York County conveys visually, accurately, that there are lots of NRHP sites in Manhattan (too many for just one list-article), reinforcing the stated number.  The smaller subdivision list-articles that Daniel Case is choosing to make for Dutchess county and thereabouts is okay and not misleading, too.  I think readers will not be disappointed by the visual suggestion of more content there, as those smaller lists are well-developed, well-illustrated lists.  In terms of examples, I am looking for list-articles that have main categories with subordinate sublists, and all are presented together.  As is done now, but better formatted.   I know also that I can construct something that looks better, perhaps without being sortable, without finding examples first, but i am still interested in finding examples. doncram (talk) 04:01, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Regarding the "picture per county" initiative, my vote would be to keep things as they are right now, with a small collection of thumbnail images from around the state. Not all counties currently have photos (much less articles) for any of their NRHP sites, so the table would have many omissions. More significantly, while I think that captioned photos of a few selected sites from across the state illustrate the character and diversity of the state's NRHP sites, tiny uncaptioned photos of arbitrarily-selected individual sites from each county would not do much more than provide eye candy. --Orlady (talk) 17:41, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * I'd like to find some example table layouts from featured list-articles that address geographically organized information, with subdivisions. Some positive examples would be, well, a more positive way to discuss this...  :)


 * I'm not sure what you have in mind. However, I am aware of two sets of featured lists that are in complex hierarchies of articles -- these might be examples of what you are after (although only one set has geographically organized information):
 * List of United States hurricanes and linked lists
 * List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people and linked lists
 * --Orlady (talk) 03:19, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * Thanks, I'll consider those. At first glance, they do not contain the kind of hierarchical list tables that i have in mind, but seriously thanks for trying to respond with something positive.


 * Also, Orlady, I am also not necessarily able to engage in pleasant conversation here, while other stuff of mine--in which i am less invested, but still--is being put up for deletion. And I don't know if you are intimating that you might want to start working the negative side and deleting stuff here too, just because I and others here don't have a perfect system worked out.    Please, specifically, do not start deleting components of my work here such as reversing my editorial choice to put in subarea lists that have separate list-articles.  I have put hundreds of hours into further developing this system of lists.  The Onondaga County one was an early prototype for the list-tables that Elkman's generator produces easily now.  The implementation of list-tables for all 62 counties, recently, even using Elkman's table generator, has been extremely timeconsuming to do right.  That doesn't mean i own it or feel that proprietary about it, but I do think that Mwanner, Dmadeo, Daniel Case, Lvklock, DanTD, and others who have developed parts of this system have more standing here, at least in terms of chatting about deleting stuff or not.  Coming from a non-contributor, suggestions of deleting stuff come across poorly.  Not saying you are doing that here, but you are doing it elsewhere, and it complicates thinking about dealing with you here, even if you are legitimately trying to be constructive, only, here. doncram (talk) 04:01, 20 October 2008 (UTC)


 * About selected pics vs. one pic per county, I don't know. It would perhaps be nice to develop a different look-and-feel than the county lists themselves.  This state-list has the state map image, which is different.  The state-level list also perhaps should be really quick-loading, as many readers may be reaching it like a splash page, on their way to finding something more specific.  Don't want to delay them with a very slow-loading page.  I dunno, will browse for examples. doncram (talk) 18:02, 19 October 2008 (UTC)


 * One way that some readers will arrive in impatient splash-mode style, is from disambiguation pages like First Presbyterian Church where i have been putting in bluelinks to state-wide lists for NRHPs not yet having articles, rather than making a lot more effort to find the specific county- or city-list that is relevant. This is a "temporary" issue, as the disambig pages will drop such bluelinks once the individual NRHP articles are created.  Anyhow, I am inclined to keep this statewide list-article short and quickish-loading, but i do want it to document the number of NRHPs in the state (which is an important contribution, not available anywhere else). doncram (talk) 18:13, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

MPS, MRA, etc. documents
Many of New York's listings on the NRHP are described in the following Multiple Property Submissions, Multiple Resource Area, or Thematic Resources studies. For each there is a NRHP document available on-line (and should be found by searching at http://www.nr.nps.gov/nrcover.htm. These can be used, at least, to develop articles on the NRHPs.  For a while I thought these were each wikipedia-notable, although i don't now.  Anyhow, the list of MPSs etc, is:
 * Albany Avenue, Kingston, Ulster County, New York MPS
 * Architecture of Ward Wellington Ward in Syracuse MPS
 * Army National Guard Armories in New York State MPS
 * AuSable River Valley Bridges MPS
 * Bath Village MRA
 * Berkshire MRA
 * Bigelow, Henry Forbes, Buildings TR
 * Boss Jones TR
 * Broome County Carousels MPS
 * Buffalo Grain and Materials Elevator MPS
 * Canandaigua MRA
 * Canastota Village MRA
 * Cape Vincent Town and Village MRA
 * Cazenovia MRA
 * Cazenovia Town MRA
 * Central Plan Dairy Barns of New York TR
 * Chelsea MRA
 * Civil War Era National Cemeteries MPS
 * Claverack MPS
 * Clermont MRA
 * Cobblestone Architecture of New York State MPS
 * Colonie Town MRA
 * Cornwall MPS
 * Covered Bridges of Washington County TR
 * Department Store TR
 * Dryden Village MRA
 * Duanesburg MRA
 * Dutchess County Quaker Meeting Houses TR
 * Fire Observation Stations of New York State Forest Preserve MPS
 * Fredella Concrete Block Structures TR
 * Freedom Trail, Abolitionism, and African American Life in Central New York MPS
 * Glens Falls MRA
 * Glens Falls MRA;Bigelow, Henry Forbes, Buildings TR
 * Great Camps of the Adirondacks TR
 * Greeley, Horace TR
 * Guilderland MRA
 * Harriet Tubman in Auburn, New York MPS
 * Highway Bridges Owned by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, Department of Transportation TR
 * Historic and Engineering Resources of the Chenango Canal MPS
 * Historic Churches of the Episcopal Diocese of Central New York MPS
 * Historic Designed Landscapes of Syracuse MPS
 * Hounsfield MRA
 * Hudson Highlands MRA
 * Hudson MPS
 * Hudson MRA
 * Hudson River Lighthouses TR
 * Huntington Town MRA
 * Industrial Development in the Oaks Creek Valley, Otsego County, New York MPS
 * Inner Loop MRA
 * Inner Loop MRA;Department Store TR
 * Interborough Rapid Transit Subway Control Houses TR
 * Isaac Henry Green, Jr. Suffolk and Nassau Counties, New York MPS
 * Keeseville Village MRA
 * Lancaster, New York MPS
 * Light Stations of the United States MPS
 * Lima MRA
 * Long Island Wind and Tide Mills TR
 * Lustron Houses in New York MPS
 * Lyme MRA
 * Masten Neighborhood Rows TR
 * Mexico MPS
 * Montgomery Village MRA
 * Moravia MPS
 * Moriah MPS
 * Morristown Village MRA
 * Mount Morris MPS
 * Movie Palaces of the Tri-Cities TR
 * Municipal Park System of Rochester, New York MPS
 * Murray Hill, New York County, New York MPS
 * Nelliston MRA
 * New Hamburg MRA
 * New York City Subway System MPS
 * New York State College of Agriculture TR
 * New York State Route 9, Town of Colonie MRA
 * Newark Valley MPS
 * Olmsted Parks and Parkways TR
 * Olmsted Parks and Parkways TR (AD)
 * Orleans MPS
 * Palisades MPS
 * Plattsburgh City MRA
 * Potter, Ephraim B., Buildings TR
 * Poughkeepsie MRA
 * Red Potsdam Sandstone Resources Taken from Raquette River Quarries MPS
 * Rhinebeck Town MRA
 * Rhinebeck Town MRA (AD)
 * Ridgewood MRA
 * Rochester MPS
 * Roslyn Harbor, New York MPS
 * Roslyn Village MRA
 * Sandy Creek MRA
 * Saranac Lake MPS
 * Saratoga Lake-Fish Creek Area Archeological Sites MPS
 * Sea Cliff Summer Resort TR
 * Shawangunk Valley MRA
 * Sidewalk Clocks of New York City TR
 * Southampton Village MRA
 * Stone Arch Bridge TR
 * Stone Buildings of Lockport, New York MPS
 * Stone Houses of Bergen County TR
 * Stone Houses of Brownville TR
 * Stony Brook Harbor Estates MPS
 * Suburban Development of Buffalo, New York MPS
 * Ticonderoga MRA
 * U.S. Coast Guard Lighthouses and Light Stations on the Great Lakes TR
 * Unadilla Village MPS
 * Upper Delaware Valley, New York and Pennsylvania MPS
 * Upper Delaware Valley, New York and Pennsylvania, MPS
 * US Post Offices in New York State, 1858-1943, TR
 * Village of Athens MRA
 * Village of Bellport MRA
 * Village of East Hampton MRA
 * Wappingers Falls MRA
 * Warrensburgh, New York MPS
 * Westfield Village MRA
 * Women's Rights Historic Sites TR
 * Yates County MPS
 * Yonkers Public Bath House TR
 * Zim TR

Statewide count of listings
Is there some reason we're not willing to trust the counts of the number of listings in each county? "More than 5,000" for the total is unsatisfying. The current counts sum to 5,031. Just wondering. --sanfranman59 (talk) 05:14, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I set this one up and put it that way. It was the first state-wide list with a county-by-county table, if i recall correctly, and I wasn't all that confident that it would be easy enough to maintain or otherwise go over well.  So my first judgment was to put in an approximate number that wouldn't seem to be demanding constant revision.   Actually the total then was 5,002 or something very close to that, just over 5,000.  Please feel free to put in a more exact current count! doncram (talk) 05:20, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Do you know if table-ization complete for NY now? --sanfranman59 (talk) 05:43, 4 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, i did it all a long time ago. I recall it took a while to do it all properly, to address some feedback u gave me.  I don't think standards have much changed, so i think it is still done;  i am not aware of anything else needed.  Besides perhaps revising the state-wide page for consistency to the other states.  But maybe no one fixed categories, or other details in the sep. county pages. doncram (talk) 06:32, 4 April 2009 (UTC)