Talk:National Shell Filling Factory, Chilwell

Dubious
Stumbled across this article today and was very surprised to see the claim that the factory was collectively awarded the VC. This is not mentioned in teh VC article, and so far as I was aware the first collective award was of the GC to island of Malta in WWII. The VC can only be awarded for actions "in the face of enemy". I'd be interested to see a direct quote form the source cited. David Underdown (talk)


 * It being known as the "VC Factory" seems fairly clearly cited, but I admit the collective award doesn't seem likely to me, either. This article suggests a more plausible explanation - the use of VC being somewhat metaphorical. Shimgray | talk | 19:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * Well found, something like that was rather what I expected, but didn't have time to look earlier. I think that's probably sufficient to amend the article?  David Underdown (talk) 20:15, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * I double checked the reference. Whilst the reference is taken from Haslam (1982), page 49, it's given as a direct quotation from The Times, 9th July (1812), of a speech given by Mr F G Kellaway, Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Munitions, in which he speculates that the VC should be awarded to the factory. Pyrotec (talk) 21:32, 20 January 2010 (UTC)


 * There's a big difference between a speculative speech and an award actually being made. I think you've also made a typo in the info above-I have access to the Times archive, and I'm having trouble tracking down this reference - Kellaway was a prolific speaker. I haven't seena single major reference work on the VC mention this award, it may have been proposed, and I agree that ther's good evidence the name was used, but this is an absolutely huge claim that's being made.  David Underdown (talk) 21:47, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you aught to read what the article currently states, and avoid the 3R rule. Pyrotec (talk) 21:51, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I reverted you once when you seemed to be trying to close down this dscussion. I'm happy with the current wording, which you wrote while I was writing my previous reply.  I've now managed to track down the article referredto, so I'll cite it directly.  I came across a few interesting mentinos of the works band as well, they played outside Buck House during the peace celebrations.  One gallantry award that defintiely was made was to the works manager, who received the Edward Medal (these were later replaced by the George Cross)
 * You reverted me whilst I was updating the article, so I assumed that you were doing the same; and, unfortunately, you forgot to sign your first posting above. Haslam quotes two paras (apparently) in full. I'm not at this stage typing them out in full (the multiple full stops are mine not Haslam's), but you should be able to cross check them against The Times. The first: I want to have the opportunity of conveying on behalf of the Ministry our sense of great loss ..... .... One can also judge of the courage of the great staff out of 7,000 men and women all but 12 put in an appearance and were ready to commence work again. The second: I confess when I stand award before this wonderful heroism. ...Verdum ....... I wonder why we should not emulate that example and give the Victoria Cross to the brave factory. Pyrotec (talk) 22:28, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I wrote my initial post just as I was about to close down the machine I was then working on. I've now added signature only, no timestamp for a bit of clarity.  Your initial comment, combined with your edit summary sounded to me as if you were just saying, "I'm right you're wrong, the current reference is enough" - I obviously misinterpreted you, but it wouldn't arisen if you had just gone straight into editing, rather than reverting me first.  Anyway, the article i sbetter than it was before, which is the esired result.  David Underdown (talk) 22:49, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Category:Former defence companies of the United Kingdom
Hi Andy. As I understand it, WWI filling factories that weren't owned and/or operated under contract by an established commercial concern but rather directly owned by the British government, in the form of the Ministry for Munitions, were each individually organised as State-owned enterprises in their own right. Or have I got my wires crossed somewhere? Ceannlann gorm (talk) 20:35, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
 * But do they fit into Category:Former defence companies of the United Kingdom? There's a whole bunch of ROF, RNPFs etc that fall under this. I just don't see these as being in the same group as Ferranti, Avro etc. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:56, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

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