Talk:National Youth Leadership Forum

This page was voted on for deletion at Votes for deletion/NYLF. The consensus was to keep it. dbenbenn | talk 19:26, 23 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Marketing organization not worthy of entry
I will repost this section and clean up the comments to be more in compliance with the nature of the program. It is a revenue driven organization that attempts to pursuade parents to send children on paid summer camps with statements about "nomintaed by teachers"

Until we can obtain some source information from NYLF on the number of students invited each year and their source, this will stand as a possible warning to parents. Any third party remarks such as "I attented the event and found it valuable" is an opinion. The concern being raised is the method of advertising, multiple mailers and flyers to promote its events with a primary designation that a child was nominated by a teacher or educator.

Storpappa (talk) 02:44, 7 March 2008 (UTC)


 * "Any third party remarks such as "I attented the event and found it valuable" is an opinion."

I understand why you would say this. However, these "opinions" are, unlike yours, based on experience, rather than speculation. Carissa33 (talk) 17:21, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

His point is that despite that some people may find it being the best thing that's ever happened to them(i personally found it one of the most enjoyable 2 weeks of my life), it's irrelavent to the legitimacy of the program that it purports itself to be. And there's plenty of evidence for his claims that are already presented here in the talk that it's not just speculation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.38.115.38 (talk) 03:57, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Hmm...
I did this program in high school, and it was pretty interesting. I can't see why it would ever be eligable for deletion. It exsists, although only about 1000 high school aged students attend each program each year. There is a collegiate level program also, which I just recieved information about today (which is why I checked up on Wikipedia's article on NYLF).

Probably no one cares, or will ever read this, but I care. Its a great excuse to go Prague, as far as I'm concerned. The college level program brings rich, young intellectuals to their choice of either: Australia, China, Europe, or South Africa. More info on the way.


 * Actually, I think lots of people will read this. And I loved both the NYLF and its collage counterpart ISLP. They were awesome. ISLP was also my first chance to get out of the North American continent, and I thought that experiencing China was one of my life’s great accomplishments. TomStar81 06:00, 7 January 2006 (UTC)


 * Sure, if you have the money, NYLF/ISLP is a very fun experience. But it ends there.  Most people, however, does not have that much money to spend for fun.  They expected NYLF/ISLP to be a life changing learning experience, as NYLF/ISLP likes to purport itself as.  But this is quite plainly, a downright lie.  You are correct in that the college program brings rich, young individuals, but I wouldn't consider intellect to be synonymous with the program. -- NYLF Tech Alumni 2004

I am a former employee of these greedy co-founders...it's nothing but a summer camp...it's all about the marketing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.34.91 (talk • contribs) January 21, 2006

I agree, with the unsigned user. NYLF isn't a very diverse program as you would like to think it is, as most of the students are from middle to high income families. The tuition costs about $2000 for a 10-day session...ridiculous for only 10 days don't ya think? --Oliver Brody 06:20, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

The NYLF is giving me a $2,200 scholarship (out of $2,300) to attend their (High School) Technology Forum in San Jose this year... I'm quite pleased (I'm not going to be bothered with even more fundraising this year - I've had other stuff to do). Ha, seems likely I'll be the least-rich fellow there. I figure that I must be doing something right, to be getting scholarships at 15, eh? T. S. Rice 06:15, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Wow...deletion?
I participated in NYLF myself, and I found it to be thoroughly enjoyable. In fact, it was one of the highlights of my senior year of high school (of course, I'm a history/politics nut, so it was like candy to me). It was very fun, and it allowed me access to governmental info I never would have been able to entertain previous (we were one of the last groups to tour the CIA headquarters before it completely closed itself from visitors). I heard speakers, toured monuments, and visited all manner of cool military/intelligence installations. It was insane fun.

I have to wonder...why on earth would someone try to delete this?

Commander Cool, part deux 05:00, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I'm a former employee of Envision EMI(formerly called National Capitol Resources) it's a scam. Don’t fall for NYLC, NYLF’s marketing (apparently some teachers have)…there are many reputable educational organizations that you can get a better experience. Check out this article…since this incident the co-founders created another organization called Envision EMI to cover the damage: http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1554/is_n3_v19/ai_14685572 Check into Lead America.,, they have an excellent reputation: http://www.lead-america.org/default.asp --65.34.34.91 20:21, 28 June 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm not going to debate the efectiveness of NYLF's programs, but I would like to see a source for the "formerly called National Capitol Resources," as I haven't heard of that before. I see that the main article was changed and this information was added, but I assume the editor just used your original research. Please verify the source and update the citation on the main article. --OSUKid7 11:27, 3 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I'm involved in NYLF and may be biased, but if Anshe Chung, a virtual realter can keep a page, then why not an interesting program that exists in real life? --Michael R. Rose 19:14, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

Controversies
Since I clearly disagree about the need for this section, I'm asking for neutral third-parties to chime in on the matter. Sure I've had a positive involvement with NYLF, but I do want WP to be as neutral as possible. I'm fine with mentioning some of the disagreements with the NYLF programs, but it seems like original research/opinion, which is why I removed it.

So could some people not involved with NYLF please voice your opinion in this matter? I don't want this to turn into an edit war where no one wins. --OSUKid7 18:49, 2 August 2006 (UTC)


 * Even if this stuff is true, the way the information is presented violates many Wikipedia policies: WP:OR, WP:CITE, and WP:NPOV. So unless this anonymous user can cite this information, use a neutral viewpoint, and abstain from making original claims, this information cannot be added to Wikipedia. Jtrost (T | C | #) 01:54, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

hey OSUKid7...call envision emi...ask for barbara Harris, richard rossie or john hines and ask them...I was there when they changed their name from national Capital Resources to Envison emi. Check out their BBB listing...it's there as well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.34.34.91 (talk • contribs) 23:57 15 August 2006
 * Good for you, but that doesn't change anything. If you can cite your source, fine, go for it. This isn't a widely known piece of information though, so as per wikipedia policies, I thought it best to ask for it to be cited. --OSUKid7 12:26, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Thir Party I guess
I visited this page to find out if I should go to NYLF and so I guess that makes me a bystander. Is this article credible because I want to know before i spend 2000.00 also! I think its a good article to have...i'll check the history now. bye. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wikimac007 (talk • contribs) 00:49, 13 April 2007 (UTC).

Fair use rationale for Image:Nylf.gif
Image:Nylf.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:17, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

National Youth Leadership Forum?
Should we move this? to National Youth Leadership Forum? User:Jonwilliamsl(talk|contribs) 18:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Scam? Some sources you'll want to read. ..
Personally, it's always been clear to me when I receive those mailings that this program is what I'd personally consider a scam. Studenst are not chosen on merit, and much of the tuition definitely goes for pure profit. I don't have the time to do the citations and all the calculations, but I'd highly, highly recommend someone to look up their publicly available 990 (?) form, since NYLF is officially "non-profit". I've found it through guidestar.org (registration required, but free). I'm pretty sure that this should be acceptable to cite in wikipedia. Interesting figures: total revenue for 2006 was about $30 million. Postage and shipping was $2.5 million (for anyone who's received one of their mailings, this is no surprise). Most outrangeous figure: $10 million to "Envision EMI," the for-profit organization, entirely for "program management fees." Isn't it amazing how much BS you can pull off through a nonprofit?

Threepointone31 (talk) 02:03, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

This article is like reading the letter again.
Ugh. Does anyone have any facts with citations on this subject? 72.209.25.168 (talk) 19:14, 24 August 2009 (UTC)


 * I did some heavy editing, removing the spam links and POV material. I also warned the editor Each1teach1, who is an employee of Envision EMI, about making changes that are a conflict of interest. This is the second time I've communicated these concerns to the author, who has made other edits to Envision EMI, LLC that demonstrate a conflict of interest. -- btphelps (talk) (contribs)