Talk:Nationalist Movement Party/Archive 1

Disvusion
Another stupid article. These words are completely wrong. And the source is a non-objecttive site. alparsan Türkes said thousand of time Turks and Kurds are brothers and sisters. Ruzgar 23:12, 11 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Thare are better ways to improve articles than deleting what you think is stupid. --Moby 11:12, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

"I want to kill Turks" These words belong to leader of Human Rights group in Turkey. Subjektiv claims by Human Rights organization cannot be published here. Ruzgar 11:24, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Please cite the quote. Your statement that Human Rights Organisations' words cannot be used here is incorrect. Enjoy your upcoming 3RR block. --Moby 11:30, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Incivility is not welcome do not taunt people. Incivility can be a blockable offense, people have been blocked indefinately for that in extreme cases. -- Cat out 22:19, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Well, funny seeing you here... "Disvusion" ??? --Moby 10:15, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

I want to know who is the "Human rights Experts in Turkey". You just write here unproved, lie theories. Ruzgar 11:41, 15 May 2006 (UTC)


 * I did not write any of this article, but I'll be sure to read and watch it now. --Moby 11:56, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

And i want to inform you MHP supporters never burn a Kurdish(!) flag. Because there is no kurdish flag. There a lot of federation, con-federation flags. And MHP never recognize federation or con-federation(truely there is no federation or confederetaion in Turkey), burning a flag means recagnizing a country or a group. This claim is completely lie. And I think pkk terrorist write that here. If anyone prove that event, i will never write in Wikipedia. Ruzgar 02:37, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Actually, there is a Kurdish flag. I would encourage you to write for Wikipedia rather than delete that which you do not agree with. --Moby 08:28, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

This flag is the flag of Iraq Kurdistan. PKK has a lot of con-federation and federation flags but they usually dont use this flag. And I mentioned in above MHP supporters never burn a Kurdistan flag because they(Turkish goverment also) don't recognize any Kurdistan. Also they think origin of Kurds are Turks. This claim stay here for months and nobody could claim it. Then I remove it. Ruzgar 16:28, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

WP:CITE
''Human rights experts in Turkey make the organization responsible for more than 4,000 murders, primarily of Kurds, Turkish leftists, and progressive journalists and union leaders. One of their deadliest acts was the organisation of anti-Alevi pogrom in Kahramanmaraş in 1978 that left 111 people dead. Today, the Turkish army and special forces actively recruit MHP members to fight in special commando units in Turkey's war against PKK.''


 * Firstly "murder" isnt exactly a neutral word.
 * Secondly what is the source of this information?
 * Thirdly does turkish army referance have any basis? If so how is it relevant to human rights? Americans hire iraqis to fight against Al-Quaida in Iraq, that is not mentioned in Republican Party
 * -- Cat out 22:16, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I try to explain who these Human rights experts(!). They are protest Turkish army and police. They never protest Pkk and his terrorist actions. Even they kill babies and rape womans.

In 2005 a terrorist enter Turkish goverment's building with bomb, Turkish Intelligent Service had already reported the turkish police about that event. Turkish police warn him hunderds of times to dont detonate the bomb. But he have tried to detonate bomb but he can't(because of nervous)then he started to escape. 2 minutes later he tried again but Turkish Special Forces shot down him with sniper shot. And Human Rights Organisation blame Turkish police and said that this is an attack to human rights.

For these reasons the founder of Human Right Organisitaion Adalet Ağaoğlu retired from leadership. And she says H.R.O is become a pkk supporter, terrorist organisation. The sentences here but i cant translate them because my english level is not good.

"Terör artıyor, terörle birlikte IHD’nin tutumu daha bir tartışılır hale geldi. Orada neler yaşandığını biliyorum. En temel hak olan insanın yaşama hakkını korumak amacıyla kurduğumuz bir dernek, öldürülen insanlara sahip çıkmıyor. O zaman kimin insan haklarını savunuyoruz sorusu geliyor akla. PKK terörü karşısında tavır almayan insan hakları derneği olur mu?"

Ruzgar 03:27, 17 May 2006 (UTC)


 * Agreed with Cat out, that part needs a revision and a reference to Ruzgar . Adalet Ağaoğlu said something like "Terror is increasing, due to this increase attitude of HRO on terror became disputed. I knew what is going on there. This organisation which we, as founders, intended to protect the most basic human right, survival, do not pay any attention to people killed. The question, whose right are we trying to protect, comes to mind then. Can anybody define a HRO that keeps silent for the terrorist attacks of PKK?"Ugur Olgun 21:08, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

MHP and Kurds
MHP see all people in Turkey as Turk. So, all Kurdish speaking people are Turk according to MHP. If they were not Turk, they would not like them as nationalists; but they see them as Turk. Though, this idea is not correct; this is the view of MHP. We cannot claim that MHP is anti-Kurdish because they think Kurdish people are Turkish people and they are Turkish nationalists.Burgaz 17:07, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

I read this website http://www.kurtulus-online.com/www/kurtulus200004/261.html.This reference is totally wrong. They say that MHP is also anti-Circussian. (I can understand Anti-Kurdishism, but Anti-Circussianism is totally silly!)

"At içinden Çerkezi gitsin Kafkasına"

MHP supported Cahar Dudayev against Russia for example. Many MHP members are ethnicially Circussian. Please do not use incorrect sources. This sentence does not belong to MHP! (There are some similar claims by Nihal Atsız, but there are not such claims by Turkes, for sure!) Burgaz 17:24, 5 February 2007 (UTC)


 * The thing is, "The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth." Otherwise, it would be considered original research unless you cite sources to contradict the quote. Khoikhoi 03:39, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

"The following quote partly illustrates the ideology of the part", the source does not say Türkeş says it. Wikipedia article, is different from the originial source, bacause source does not indicate who makes this speech, but Wikipedia article says Türkeş said it. (If I don't make an English mistake!) Quote by WHO? Burgaz 14:25, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Changed to the reference version. Burgaz 11:24, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

PKK KURDISH TERRORISTS killed many villagers in the eastern part of Turkey, but no comments by HRO till now! They are still killing and raping Turkish people. THESE TERRORISTS killed 35 villagers in BASBAGLAR KOYU, unfortunately HRO kept silent! PKK have been using European and American guns, grenades and ammunition for years. They also killed and raped many Kurds slandering Turkish Army. Despite Kurds and Laz people are tribes in Turkey, they have been being provoked to revolt against Turkish Government for years. HRO frankly supports PKK in Turkey. PKK claims that MHP is a racist party, it is a big lie! MHP heartily believes in Koran, Holy Book, and Koran certainly forbids to be a racist. PKK never likes MHP, because MHP is a very good friend for all Kurdish people. There have been many Kurds in MHP's administrative staff. We invite you to visit Turkey and stay for some time to find out the realities concerning such topics. Respectfully Yours, Oguzhan Bulut, bulutoguzhan@yahoo.com

Hmmm... The Turkish army has also been using European and American guns, grenades and ammunition for years!? And this is not an article about PKK, right? This is an article about a nationalist party which has been claimed for being a racist/facist party, for quit a long long time. If we look at the period between 1976-1980 it is obvious that MHP has some clear "original" facistic characteristics. Or just click into the youth organization "Ulku Ocaklari", there you can find a document for an honest oath on guns, pure-blood, Koran etc, pretty fucked-up. I think you need stronger statements than "MHP heartly believes in Koran and Koran certainly forbids to be a racist" to convince other people. Give us a break will ya. We are on Wikipedia!

PLEASE STOP! Will you please stop this "we love Kurds" thing. MHP has a good relation with Kurds, but with assimilated kurds who are willing to say 'Happy is the one who says, "I'm a Turk"'.(Yes, these words are all around Turkey from primary school and upto...) And let me give an example from Mersin where MHP folks had an demonstration lately. "Mersin will remain Turkish, Mersin will be grave for kurds". Around 2000 young people from MHP's youth organization marshed through the city with racistic slogans and their well known finger signs. Again, for not long time ago, young guys tightly connected to MHP's yout organization, "Ulku Ocaklari", slaughtered 3 christian missionaries in Malatya. So please stop this, "we are not facists/racists, we love kurds" bullshit, willya! I can give tons of "documented" examples, enough to stress our dear Wiki's database. My younger brother was once brought down with knifes by idealistic MHP folks just because he was a left-wing guy at the university. Aaa, they also broke my expensive Martin acoustic-guitar which my brother was carrying at the incident. Please please please, stop this peace&love thing, we know you all.


 * MHP is not an anti-kurd party. He is the links of popular newspapers, magazines, web sites in Turkey which shows the Kurdish MHP supporters (bozkürtler).
 * http://www.yeniaktuel.com.tr/tur101,44@2100.html (There is also photos in this magazine (you can see the Kurdish MHP supporters here (they making graywolf symbol with their hands)) )
 * http://www.rojaciwan.com/modules.php?name=eBoard&file=viewthread&tid=11063 (That is a PKK supporter web site which talking about Bozkürtler)
 * http://www.hafif.org/yazi/diyarbakirli-ulkucu-gencler (that is a news portal)
 * http://www.tumgazeteler.com/?a=2125730 (Akşam Newspaper)

Ruzgar 22:19, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mhp.gif
Image:Mhp.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 15:06, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

POV
The formulation "Although the MHP has been labelled as an extremist nationalistic party by left-wing and Kurdish separatist groups", putting all critics of the MHP in the left-wing or separatist camp, reflects a particular point of view. It is not just by left-wing or separatist groups that the MHP is considered ultra-nationalist – unless one considers the Christian Science Monitor left-wing. The word "Although" further expresses specifically the POV that these critics are wrong. The Grey Wolves, the youth organization of the MHP, has a history of violence against left-wing groups and minorities trying to assert their rights. Denying ethnic groups (such as Kurds) the right to use their own language, and branding such demands as separatist and a threat to the unitary state and Turkish identity, are not so innocent as presented. --Lambiam 20:26, 24 July 2008 (UTC)


 * Branding the party, using single or multiple sources, violated WP:NPOV and WP:WEASEL. Please, stick to the neutral point of view. Atabəy (talk) 23:47, 7 July 2009 (UTC)

Is this correct?
Is the word rightist necessary, since it is preceded by the word far-right? Would not far-right give a clear enough explanation? I just thought it sounded rather odd. --Kansas Bear (talk) 02:24, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
 * The Nationalist Movement Party is a far-right, rightist political party in Turkey.

nationalist action?
nope this is completely "movement" cause it is the party of "nationalist movement" like "anarchist movement" "socialist movement" etc. hareket can be translated to action but it was not exact translation Girayhan (talk) 19:05, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Fascism
Regarding my last edit: mainstream call them fascist. this also list it as fascist: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fascist_movements_by_country_N-T so it's fascist as per Wikipedia standards. Towsonu2003 05:59, 25 January 2007 (UTC)


 * I removed the claim for the party being fascist. No sources have been provided, and references to other wikipedia articles are not acceptable in accordance with wikipedia policies. Grandmaster 07:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

Every Turk and every people in Turkey know that MHP is not fascist, and have never been. Only communists or anti-nationalists in Turkey claim such an assertion. The evaluation of 'ultra-nationalist' about MHP was edited as only 'nationalist' by me. Xianbataar (talk) 22:35, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

what the hell is you talking about. MHP is ultra Fascist.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.242.40.127 (talk) 11:06, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Slogan
Ses ver Türkiye (Respond, Turkey!) is not the main slogan or motto of this party. That is just one of many slogans used in only one election campaign. I think it must be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Inspectortr (talk • contribs) 22:48, 21 November 2012 (UTC)

Religion?
I removed it. There's nothing as reference, So it is misleading information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 106.67.180.24 (talk) 17:28, 2 June 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Nationalist Movement Party. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090305194604/http://www.variant.randomstate.org/pdfs/issue12/Fernandes.pdf to http://www.variant.randomstate.org/pdfs/issue12/Fernandes.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 11:26, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 5 one external links on Nationalist Movement Party. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100817200019/http://www.mhp.org.tr:80/mhp_tarihce.php to http://www.mhp.org.tr/mhp_tarihce.php
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110723024542/http://www.belgenet.net/ayrinti.php?yil_id=12 to http://www.belgenet.net/ayrinti.php?yil_id=12
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110720033123/http://www.belgenet.net/ayrinti.php?yil_id=13 to http://www.belgenet.net/ayrinti.php?yil_id=13
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110723024612/http://www.belgenet.net/ayrinti.php?yil_id=14 to http://www.belgenet.net/ayrinti.php?yil_id=14
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110720033159/http://www.belgenet.net/ayrinti.php?yil_id=15 to http://www.belgenet.net/ayrinti.php?yil_id=15

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 04:27, 21 March 2016 (UTC)

Wrong link
The link in the infobox to Türkeş is wrong because it clarifies Türkeş is a secularist. Either the user who re-added it provides a source that the MHP is for a "Turk-Islam synthesis" or the information should be renamed into Türkeş' ideology. Yes, it means something: it means Türkeş' ideology, and what it is you can see in the link. The MHP is a Kemalist and thus secular party which rejects any form of islamization. With Erdogan, it just agrees on constitutional reforms. --212.186.7.98 (talk) 12:50, 24 November 2017 (UTC)
 * The MHP sprung out of the more hardline nationalist wing of the Kemalist movement, and was thus originally nominally secular, that is true. However, the party's secularism is today at best found in a few internal groups in the party. It is widely known that the party is not secular in the Kemalist sense, though it is by no means as deeply-rooted in Islamism as the AKP. Sources describing the MHP as an adherent of the Turkish-Islamic synthesis:
 * The components Bozkurt salute have been described as symbolizing "Türk-İslam-Mühür-Dünya". The party's flag, the three crescents, is an old Ottoman standard. This is not some modern, secular party, but arguably among the most socially and culturally conservative in all of Turkey. The BBP, which is more openly Islamist, and has close ties to the Ülkü Ocakları, traces its roots to the MHP. The MHP describing itself as secular is not sufficient evidence that it actually is. Even the AKP officially pledge their allegiance to secularism – just read their program – but unless you're going to argue that they, too, are secular, I think this proves my point. The "Kemalism" of the MHP is more closely linked to admiration of Atatürk's so-called "first role" (i.e. his role as a military commander before coming to power) than to what has been called his "second role" (i.e. his work in reforming Turkey after coming to power). Admiration for Atatürk is found across most Turkish parties, and is not synonymous with Kemalism in the modern sense.
 * That being said, the words "Turkish-Islamic synthesis" in the infobox should of course not link to Türkeş' article. — Μαρκος Δ  14:23, 25 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Well, but it still links to it. "Turk-Islam synthesis" links to Türkeş' article. Please remove the linking. You provided sources for it, I didn't want anything more. It just stood unsourced. So please remove the link to Türkeş and add those sources into the infobox. --212.186.7.98 (talk) 14:37, 25 November 2017 (UTC)


 * Except you clearly did want something more, namely to propagate your own personal view that the MHP is the "true Kemalist" party, and that those who claim otherwise are propagandists of CHP and HDP. I am going to have to strongly warn you against that kind of language when contributing in the future. Regardless, I have made the changes to the article now. — Μαρκος Δ  15:09, 25 November 2017 (UTC)


 * How dare you talk like an administrator + lying? Regardless, thank you for the changes. --212.186.7.98 (talk) 20:04, 25 November 2017 (UTC)


 * There's no such thing as "talking like an administrator"; I am talking like a civilized, responsible person who actually has a clue about Turkey and Turkish politics, clearly in contrast to a certain other "contributor" here. I have not lied once, but I have quoted you repeatedly on your "true Kemalism" and "CHP and HDP propaganda" nonsense, and made clear that those who seek to push an agenda here, should find something better to do with their time. Now I recommend you stick to topics that you understand, and stop arguing about nothing. This discussion is pointless, so I am ending it here. — Μαρκος Δ  20:15, 25 November 2017 (UTC)


 * I'm arguing about something, civilized and responsible, clearly in contrast to a certain other "contributor" here. I don't speak nonsense because it's pretty clear you're for CHP or HDP. Your text borders personal attacks so maybe you should think about your "contributions" to WP and if you wanna continue here. --212.186.7.98 (talk) 20:36, 25 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Nationalist Movement Party. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150214104944/http://www.yargitaycb.gov.tr/Partiler/mhp.html to http://www.yargitaycb.gov.tr/Partiler/mhp.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.variant.randomstate.org/pdfs/issue12/Fernandes.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090519200925/http://kurtulusyolu.org/gazete/tam_goster.php?fid=273 to http://kurtulusyolu.org/gazete/tam_goster.php?fid=273

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 01:14, 2 January 2018 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Nationalist Movement Party. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150104161345/http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail.action;jsessionid=3Ghv60BSd63UASpRJxK9ZPhJ?newsId=194568&columnistId=0 to http://www.todayszaman.com/newsDetail.action;jsessionid=3Ghv60BSd63UASpRJxK9ZPhJ?newsId=194568&columnistId=0
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110827084715/http://www.mhpizmir.org.tr/basindamhp/2007/2007ekim.htm to http://www.mhpizmir.org.tr/basindamhp/2007/2007ekim.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 13:31, 14 February 2018 (UTC)

MHP political position
Shouldn't MHP just be called far-right? The sources which say it is right-wing do not contradict the claims it is far-right and additionally, parties like National Rally and AfD are listed as only far right. MHP is in many ways even further to the right than them The Account 2 (talk) 08:31, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes I agree, one of these sources says right wing dissidents (iyi party) and not MHP. Shadow4dark (talk) 18:36, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
 * Right-wing to far-right should remain in the infobox and personally, I am also in favor of the presence of "right-wing to far-right" in the infobox for the National Rally and AfD, however a consensus to keep only far-right has been reached on the talk page for these 2 parties. --Martopa (talk) 18:27, 10 August 2022 (UTC)
 * well AfD & RN dont have paramilitary wings... Braganza (talk) 14:03, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer if we remove right-wing from the infobox. The current infobox implies that the party is ultranationalist and neo-fascist but is labeled "right-wing to far-right". Also, the amount of academic sources for far-right is double than for right-wing. Grey Wolves are also the unofficial paramilitary wing of this party... Vacant0 (talk) 22:27, 31 August 2022 (UTC)
 * i agree, most moderates went o IYI Braganza (talk) 14:03, 1 September 2022 (UTC)
 * It seems like 4 are in favor of only keeping "far-right", one user is opposed. If anyone is else opposed to this, feel free to comment. I'll implement this by the end of the week. Vacant0 (talk) 17:54, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Election logo
I couldn't find the election logo anywhere. See election ballot. Can someone create it? It should be added to the infobox. Beshogur (talk) 15:21, 22 April 2023 (UTC)