Talk:Navagraha

Merging
The article Hindu_Astrology already contains this information.


 * Please don't. The Navagraha are important as a separate article. --BostonMA 22:48, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * To clarify, the Jyotisha article is about astrology. However, worship at Navagraha temples is, I think, something other than astrology.  I think an article entitled Navagraha is important in its own right. --BostonMA 22:56, 26 January 2006 (UTC)


 * I too would argue against merging: each of the nine Grahas potentially could have a reasonable article. We already have the nine articles, a category and this overview article. However, a number of the articles need expansion. Cje 09:19, 11 March 2006 (UTC)


 * My first article on Graha, not to be mistaken to planet, is now merged with 'NavaGraha' article, thanks - Sarma Pisapati, Bethlehem PA

I am not sure but I think Shani should be assigned the Neuter Gender and not the Female Gender. Sorry for not having an ID right now.

Other meaning of Graha?????
"A graha is basically anything that can lay hold of,control another thing,object.It refers mainly to sprits or spiritual beings or entities. The Navgrahas are nine (9) such entities.According to the astrological treatise Prasna Marga there are many other spiritual entities called grahas or spirits.All (excepting the navgrahas) are said to have been born of the anger of Lord Shiva or Rudra.Most grahas are generally malefic in nature but there are a few that are/can/maybe good according to the named treatise above.I will at a future date and time give the exact reference in the said treatise. . Also in the book called The Puranic Encyclopedia, under the heading Graha Pinda, a list of such grahas(spirits or spiritual entities,etc) are named,given that are said to afflict children,etc. Also in same book in various places names of spirits (grahas) are given like Skhanda graha that is said to cause miscarriage(s), Thus The term graha though in this contexts applies to the nine (9) planetary dieties,spirits,spiritual beings-entities,etc.The term mostly refers to any spirit(ual) force in general as attempted to be explained in this editing."

The text above was added by an unidentified user User:200.108.6.182. Though referenced, I am not sure if this is true. I would like the uploadeder to clarify more about the subject.

Also anyone else knows about it. Please add info.--Redtigerxyz 11:06, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I did a tidy up and removed the above phrase about a graha controlling or laying hold of objects as it appears to contradict what is said about a graha being a cosmic marker or 'traffic sign'. If this isn't correct perhaps someone could clarify.Neelmack 15:27, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Slokas - to include or to not
''There is also a stotra in the praise of the Navagrahas.

"Namah Sooryaya, Chandraya, Mangalaya, Budhaya cha, Guruhu, Shukra, Shanibhihi cha Rahuve, Ketuve Namaha"

Some people believe that by chanting this stotra, man is relieved from all his sins and bad effects that may occur due to these grahas on him.

A general mantra for Navagrahadevataaya :

"Aum, brahmaamuraaris-tripuraantakaari, bhaanuh-shashi, bhoomi sutau buddhashca, gurooshca-shukrah shani-raahu-ketavah, kurvantu sarve grahaah shaanti-karaa bhavantu".

This mantra is associated with Brahmaa and the nine planets (grahas). Brahmaa is the Lord who controls the nine planets. This mantra calls for him and the nine planets to relieve the ill effects of the nine planets in general. You can chant this mantra for at least 7 times a day.''

The above slokas were removed from the article by User:Danny. About the inclusion of slokas, a discussion is started by me on WP:HINDU, please present your views there.--Redtigerxyz 06:10, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Summary on all nine grahas
I have restored the summary on all the navagraha which an anonymous contributor deleted. The value of having this information all together in one article is to save the user having to enter and exit no less than nine different articles to get even the most basic information, even if that information is duplicated. The information given in the table is simply insufficient, and at least a paragraph on each graha is necessary if this article is to have any value.Neelmack 09:42, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Then shorten the information and add templates. And please don't refer to me as anonymous, I am IPSOS. IPSOS (talk) 13:01, 21 August 2007 (UTC)


 * Great job IPSOS. considering the present form of the article, I suggest the table be removed and the images and information be put in resp. sub-sections. As a sample, Surya section is edited--Redtigerxyz 13:22, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
 * As no objection was taken, i have removed the table and merged info in resp. sections. The reasoning was that a person had to refer the table AS welll as the section for the complete info of a graha.--Redtigerxyz 13:15, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi me again :). I agree information shouldn't be repeated but it seemed a pity to lose the yantras so I reconstituted a reduced table.Neelmack 20:33, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
 * The Yantras is going into details, let them be in individual articles.--Redtigerxyz 13:28, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Hello, The tabular representation with details about each graha seems well constructed. I came across a temple where the Purohit was kind enough to explain few things about the Navagrahas. He explained about trees / plants associated with each graha. Likewise each graha also has a ride. It'd be great if these can also be added. Also, I have a different opinion on the directions of Chandra and Mangala. My 2 cents are enlisted below. I am not sure about the English names for all the trees / plants. T - Tree / Plant D - Direction RAHU T – Grass D – South; SHANI – SATURN T – Banni D – West; KETU T – Darbha D – South; MANGALA – MARS T – Kadira D – South West; ADITYA – SUN T – Shvetarka D – East; BRIHASPATI – JUPITER T – Peepal D - North; CHANDRA – MOON T – Phalash D – South West; SHUKRA – VENUS T – Audumbhara D – East; BUDHA – MERCURY T – Apamarga D - North; Anand.rkrishnan (talk) 12:16, 16 August 2009 (UTC)Anand R (Mangalore, India) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anand.rkrishnan (talk • contribs) 12:12, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Opinion
I don't mean to be a spoilsport and I appreciate all the hard work put in to make this article, but it is a little hard to follow, and I am indian. I think it can be made much better, I could help out if some is needed. SiegerKranzMeer 01:48, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

Para in Lead????
"Alternative research and reports of psychics / energy readers affirm that Grahas are independent energy beings causing direct energy influence upon the auras (energy bodies) and minds of beings connected to the Earth (like humans, animals, plants etc.) Each Graha carries a specific energy quality, which is described in an allegorical form through its mythological and astrological references. The energies of the Grahas are getting connected in a specific way to the individual auras of humans at the time they take their first breath in a given nativity. These energy connections remain with the natives of Earth as long as their current body lives. Earth (as an independent energy entity) and its rotation around its axis is an important mediator and deciding factor of how these influences are carried out upon the beings, who are the children of Earth. See more in the Jyotisha Bhavas. Humans are also capable to tune themselves to the chosen energy of a specific Graha through Samyama with that Graha or its presiding deity. The effects of worship of specific deities are manifested accordingly to the layout of their relative energies in a given nativity of a worshipper in question."

does this have to be in the lead.--Redtigerxyz 13:07, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

I find it important to include into the article an alternative description of Graha as a direct influencer and an energy entity. The definition of Graha as a 'marker' or 'traffic sign' is not in accordance with the original etymology of the Sanskrit word used to name it and also defies the millennia-long tradition of worshipping the Grahas as Deities and addressing them as individual energy beings. There are numerous references to the Grahas as energy beings (Deities) in the ancient Jyotisha scriptures (like Brihat Parashara Hora Shastra, Kalyana Varma's Saravali etc. etc.).

I do not mind including also the idea of Grahas being the 'markers', as such an idea had been expressed and supported by certain (mostly recent) astrologers. But it's not in accordance with the majority of ancient Jyotisha sources.

I also disagree with Redtigerxyz and Neelmack removing the information referenced in the "Other meaning of Graha?????" section of this discussion.

I take the liberty to restore the information provided by me in my last edit of the page. In case it is removed again I intend to address the Wikipedia authorities regarding the biased and personal-opinion oriented exposure of the subject.

Kind regards, NazarK 17:33, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

Reasons for removal from lead: --Redtigerxyz 10:50, 12 October 2007 (UTC)
 * 1) Not referenced. Secondary sources should be quoted. see WP:CITE
 * 2) "Alternative research and reports of psychics / energy readers" By whom??? Secondary sources to confirm that
 * 3) The inclusion of the info in dispute may be a case of WP:OR
 * 4) The info can not be in the lead as per WP:LEAD. It discusses details. Inclusion in another section called "Astrological Importance" or something like that can be considered. I do not oppose such an inclusion.
 * 5) Grahas are acknowedgled as deities in the lead and their worship can been covered in the article.

"The idea of planets, stars and other celestial bodies being the living energy entities influencing the other beings of the Universe has cross-references in many ancient cultures and had become the background of numerous modern fiction works (like Solaris by Stanisław Lem, see also the movie with the same title). As per Emerald Tablets of Thoth, Earth is also such a being (a Graha), while having a special status of Mother-Planet for the Humans: 'know ye that the Earth is living in body - as thou art alive in thine own formed form. - The Flower of Life is as thine own place of Spirit - and streams through the Earth - as thine flows through thy form; - giving of life to the Earth and its children, - renewing the Spirit from form unto form.' ref:Emerald Tablets of Thoth. The Keys of Life and Death. http://www.crystalinks.com/emerald13bw.html"

Removing above para as the intrepretation of the poem can be considered WP:OR. The mention of Solaris is worthy not of the lead but of trivia section, which WP discourages.--Redtigerxyz 13:39, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

NPOV
This article is non-neutral. It talks about unscientific things (pseudoscience) and uses misleading words to treat them as scientific (like energies....). I do not mean that the articcle should be deleted but it should be re-written in a better encyclopedic and neutral language, like "Hindus believe that.....", "Neo-astrologers treat graha influence as energies.....", etc. I personally do not have the time for such a massive upheaval.Cygnus_hansa (talk) 15:58, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

I disagree. It portrays the concept which is but a belief. It is not a point of view but an accurate representation of a belief-system. --Dipendra2007 (talk) 04:07, 27 August 2008 (UTC)


 * Magicalsaumy, I understand your criticism, and I realize that this approach is in line with current encyclopedic practice. My problem with it is that the "neutrality" being requested here is an illusion.  It is not neutral; it is actually wholly representative of a modern, mostly Western, point of view, that regards all such things, things the writer does not personally think are valid, as odd curiosities--things to be studied, like flora and fauna--and the writer must therefore distance herself from the subject by making her tone disdainful.
 * There is actually a very clear point of view implicit in using such language--a derogatory judgment-- and forgive me, but that's not neutral.
 * At this point in the discussion, someone usually goes off and declares that we can't be writing articles claiming that the Moon is made of green cheese, etc., etc., but that is exactly the sort of distinction that has to be made.  Wiki cannot be a club of arrogant prerogators, like some sort of clique of 19th century European naturalist gentlemen wandering the world "setting things right." At least understand there is certainly a strong point of view implicit in doing that. NaySay (talk) 14:23, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Navagraha images
I am removing the copyrighted Navagraha, which are placed in the article as fair use as they violate "No free equivalent" clause of Non-free content -- Redtigerxyz Talk 08:19, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Ordering of the Navagrahas in the Temple
In most of the Templese of India, Navagrahas are not the main deity. for example there might be a Ganesha Temple and Navagraha installed in the same premise. In such cases the nine deities are acually enshrined on a single platform with each diety looking at a certain direction. Pls let me know if these infomation (about the direction, place etc can be added to the article) Ap aravind (talk) 15:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Adi Devataa and Pratyadi Devataa
Every Navagraha is associated with a adi devataa and pratyadi devataa. pls let me know if we can have a table including them also Ap aravind (talk) 15:19, 18 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes. It would be very nice to have this information in a table - the adi devataas and pratyadi devataas. Thanks. NazarK (talk) 20:24, 16 September 2009 (UTC)

Encyclopaedia of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh
It has been discovered that this book: Contains significant amounts of material plagiarized from Wikipedia articles. (Some other books from the same publisher also have this problem). There is no practical way of determining which material came from Wikipedia, and which came from other sources. Further, widespread plagiarism is an indication of poor scholarship. For those reasons, and according to Wikipedia policy, WP:CIRCULAR, I will deleting all citations to the book. However I will not delete the material that cites it, as there's no indication that the material is inaccurate. For more background, see WP:RSN, or the archive after it goes there.  Will Beback   talk    23:16, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Gupta, Om. Encyclopaedia of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Gyan Publishing House, 2006. ISBN 8182053897, 9788182053892.

Retu and Ketu sound alot like Uranus and Neptune. Could be wrong. -Murriemir — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.42.105 (talk) 09:08, 11 June 2011 (UTC)

Lead paragraph and 'mistranslations'
A lot of the introduction is spent talking about mistranslations into English of Navagraha & graha. It is better to just clearly explain what it does mean, as an article including all the misunderstandings about Hinduism would be thousands of pages long! Ashmoo (talk) 15:29, 27 July 2010 (UTC)

Pluto
In the last sentence of the first section of this article it is stated that Pluto revolves around the Sun in a direction opposite that of the eight planets. This statement is false. Said sentence has been deleted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.162.80.83 (talk) 08:32, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Uranus and Neptune
Rahu and Ketu has been referred to as Neptune and Uranus respectively in this article. These two grahas also referred to as Lunar ascending node and Lunar descending node here.

Rahu and Ketu are generally referred as Chaya Graha (Shadow Planet). So referring them to Lunar ascending node and Lunar descending node would be correct. However, Neptune and Uranus are real planets and these could not be referred to as Rahu and Ketu. Urskarthic (talk) 07:39, 7 March 2019 (UTC)

Days of the Week
The days of the week in Hindi are named after the Navagraha, shouldn't this be included in the article? Even if it is simply a sentence in the lead section. ViolaTravelCard (talk) 08:21, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Navagraha
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Navagraha's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Dalal2010": From Indra:  From Budha:  From Hindu astrology:  

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 11:38, 4 June 2022 (UTC)