Talk:Naval rating

The information was just completely wrong for the U.S. Navy, but was clearly referring to the Royal Navy's use of the term. Cleaned up the wording enough to integrate the U.S. Navy section, but am extremely doubtful about the Royal Navy information itself. If anyone knows enough to check the facts in the Royal Navy section, I would appreciate it. - Wguynes 03:26, Mar 27, 2004 (UTC)

rank vs. rate vs. rating
I do not understand what seems to be a discrepancy between the explanation of rating here, and on the web-site, for the US Navy, which says, "The use of the word "rank" for Navy enlisted personnel is incorrect. The term is "rate." The rating badge is a combination of rate (pay grade, as indicated by the chevrons) and rating (occupational specialty, as indicated by the symbol just above the chevrons)." http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/ranks/rankrate.html Which is why I am still confused. Slrubenstein


 * I believe you may be right. (Good catch!)  I am probably responsible for most of the misinformation.  Feel free to make edits wherever necessary.  I'd say the Royal Navy uses the term much more liberally. - Wguynes 00:21, May 14, 2004 (UTC)


 * The rating badge is a combination of rate and rating. So, one merely substitutes "rate" for "rank" in the other armed forces, and "rating" for Military Occupational Specialty. - Wguynes 20:57, May 14, 2004 (UTC)

Avoiding use of "rank" terminology for enlisted?
I've never heard of not referring to enlisted by "rank" and instead using "paygrade". Slrubenstein, are you under that impression? - Wguynes 18:19, May 15, 2004 (UTC)

E-1 through E-3 — USN
In the USN section, it says E-1 through E-3 do not have ratings, yet they surely can, and do so. There are plenty of ETSN (E-3 Electronics Tech) and BMSA (E-2 Boatswain Mate) and most others to go around. — al-Shimoni  (talk) 09:49, 9 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Another point: the section also states
 * Personnel E-1 to E-3 have no rating and are thus called "non-rated men" or "non-rates;" however they are broadly classed into one of five groups of junior rates, Seaman (SN), Fireman (FN), Airman (AN), Hospitalman (HN) and Constructionman (CN).
 * First, it almost looks like there is some slight mixing of terms (rate and rating) here.
 * Second, for personnel who are E-1 to E-3, in reference to the "non-rated" and "non-rates" terms quoted in the text, you might want to add that what is frequently used for those who actually do not have a rating (usually because they failed out of their school) is the term "undesignated" which is used, for example, as "undesignated seaman" or "undesignated fireman apprentice", etc.
 * — al-Shimoni  (talk) 10:04, 9 November 2011 (UTC)


 * Apologies; yet another comment. The junior rates listed in the section are for the E-3 rate. Taking the Seamen rates for example: E-1 is Seamen Recruit (SR), E-2 is Seamen Apprentice (SA), and E-3 is Seamen (SN). The other junior rates follow the same pattern (for example, an E-2 Machinist Mate would have the rate of Fireman Apprentice {FA} and his rate and rating would be abbreviated as MMFA).
 * — al-Shimoni  (talk) 10:14, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

A picture and some meddling
Dear persons who have worked on the Naval ratings page previously. I hope it suits your purposes that I included an illustration - of classic vintage - to enliven the page. I have also included some information. I hope it will be received positively. I don't wish to step on toes. Please let me know if this suits. AmesJussellR (talk) 21:30, 10 August 2012 (UTC)

Clarifying definition
I'm a little confused about the definition of Naval rating. The article seems to claim that naval rating is a subclass of human, that instances of naval rating are humans, that a naval rating is a kind of person, that a human being named John Doe might be a naval rating.

I'm not familiar with this subject, but I would have thought that naval rating was a subclass of rank or position, that instances of naval rating were things like Able rate or boatswain's mate. Can someone knowledgeable about this subject confirm or deny my suspicions, and edit the article accordingly to clarify this issue. Daask (talk) 21:53, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
 * Actually, in the part of the article dealing with the term "rating" in the U.S. Navy and U.S. Coast Guard there are several misleading statements and the paragraph should probably be re-written. The term "rate" means a naval pay grade, i.e. E-1, E-4, E-7, etc. The term "rating" is defined as a military skill analogous to a civilian occupation. Persons in pay grades E-1, E-2, and E-3 are referred to as "non-rates" because the do not have or have not completed the requirements for a particular military skill. A person with a rating is a petty officer or chief petty officer in pay grades E-4 through E-9. The person who is in pay grade E-4 and is a boatswains mate would be referred to as a boatswains mate third class. The person who is in pay grade E-5 and is a boatswains mate would be referred to as a boatswains mate second class. The person who is in pay grade E-6 and is a boatswains mate would be referred to as a boatswains mate first class. In the non-rate rank structure of the Navy, there are several classes of career fields, i.e. seaman, fireman, hospitalman, constructionman, and airman. All those who enter the Navy start as a seaman recruit. The promotion to pay grade E-2 is the time in a sailors career when they are assigned or pick a field to be trained. If they are going to be trained in deck ratings, they are then referred to as a seaman apprentice; sailorsss who is assigned to the engineering ratings are referred to as a firemen apprentice. At this time, they are in training to become a rated person known as a petty officer. Those personnel in training schools for various ratings, known as "A" schools, will generally be promoted to the pay grade of E-4 upon graduation and be a petty officer. The rating they would have on completion of "A" school would depend on what rating school they graduated from. A fireman who graduated from machinist mate school would become upon promotion, a machinist mate third class. A seaman who graduated from gunners mate school would become upon promotion, a gunners mate third class.
 * There is a source of confusion in the term "rating" that exists. For those sailors or Coast Guardsmen that elect not to go to an "A" school, they may go directly to the fleet and serve in a billet aboard a ship or cutter. This happens in some cases where the school billets are full and the person will serve on a ship or cutter until a school billet opens up. These persons may elect to "strike" for a rating. This would mean that they would train along side rated personnel and do on-the-job training in a career field. A person interested in becoming a boatswains mate would after some initial training would be referred to as an seaman apprentice boatswains mate. They are not rated yet. After passing some tests they are promoted to seaman boatswains mate. Still not rated. After passing yet more tests and having a certain minimum time in pay grade E-3, then they are promoted to pay grade E-4 and are now a boatswains mate third class. They are now a rated person and a petty officer, just like their shipmates that went to "A" school. A short way of saying all this is if a person is in pay grades E-1 though E-3, they are "non-rates", those persons in pay grades E-4 through E-9 are petty officers or chief petty officers. Petty officers or chief petty officers are rated personnel, i.e. they are fully trained in a military occupation. The term "non-rate" could be thought of in the civilian world as a intern or trainee. Cuprum17 (talk) 01:30, 1 March 2021 (UTC)

Usage of "enlisted"
The article appears to define a rating as an enlisted sailor. However, my impression is that term "enlisted" is U.S. Rather than directing readers to the article enlisted rank, perhaps it would be more general to direct them to Ranks and insignia of NATO. The latter is still not a global term, but perhaps it is an improvement. Non-officer ranks might be the best term but still has to be directed somewhere. I'm not an expert so I will leave the question for others. Humpster (talk) 04:13, 20 June 2024 (UTC)