Talk:Navdeep Singh (lawyer)

Vandalism- Page should be made editable only by those currently logged in
The following objectionable text was uploaded on 18th Feb, by an IP address originating in Melbourne, Australia. Despite numerous references to published works which have been attributed to the subject of the article, and despite numerous media reports referencing him as an attorney and military figure of note, there are individuals who wish this article to be deleted, and are performing acts of vandalism upon it. I recommend that the page be made editable only by persons who are logged in. Offensive text follows:

Revision as of 16:17, 18 February 2009 (edit) 58.106.120.206 (Talk)

Navdeep Singh, then retired and shifted to Melbourne, Australia for further studies. Ever since the latter has been hanging out with this gang, which is known in Melbourne, as Southbank Crew. Navdeep SIngh is more known as Nav or Saali Cherry in Melbourne. The Southbank Crew influenced Nav into mary-jane and binge daaru. He performs every Friday night on Lygon Street as a belly dancer in some popular gay bars such as GayPride and SpankMeBoyo!

Article should be deleted
Here is why Here are the google searches on the person and his book

Nothing regarding the author.| Captain Navdeep Singh - No return matching the person

|Soldier Know Your Rights

- 1 return And here are the notability guidelines related to this person. In general: A credible independent biography. The person has received significant recognized awards or honors. Wide name recognition The person made a widely recognized contribution that is part of the enduring historical record in their specific field.4 Multiple features in credible news media.4 Commercial endorsements of notable product

Creative professionals: scientists, academics, economists, professors, authors, editors, journalists, filmmakers, photographers, artists, architects, engineers, and other creative professionals. The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by their peers or successors. The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory or technique. The person has created a significant or well-known work, or collective body of work, which has been the subject of an independent book or feature-length film, or of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews. The person's work either (a) has been displayed in a significant exhibition or as a monument (b) has won significant critical attention, or (c) is represented within the permanent collection of a significant gallery or museum of more than local significance.

The only criteria applicable is significant recognized awards or honors. And apart from one award, ( The Army Commander's Commendation Medal) whose significance is not clarified, there are just mentions of "most awarded" without details of awards, and no independent confirmation of "press release" like reportage of award/most award in what are local newspaper editions.

The "Army Commander's commendation medal is of unknown vintage/ importance / | Goolge search on Army Commander's commendation medal It does not find a mention in | Wikipedia category Military awards and decorations in India

There are 6 Army Commanders in the Indian Army and god knows how many commendation medals they give out each year. That is the only medal which has got a mention here and then claims are made as to this person being the "most awarded" person in the Indian Army !- speedy delete!A volunteer who would not have spent one day under fire is the most awarded person in the Indian military ! Haphar 14:24, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Please see this link which weighs in on his awards:- they are local "commendations" given by local commanders. It would not feature in any defence gazzette, if the award/commendation is important, it should feature in a military publication!Haphar 14:35, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

PRETTY RESEARCHED ARTICLE AND SHOULD BE KEPT ON BOARD It has been alleged that this military volunteer has not faced a bullet and hence does not deserve to be here. An unfortunate statement since being a reservist and still being decorated time and again makes him even more qualified and honoured. The user Haphar has commented that there are 6 Army Commanders in the Indian Army and 'god knows how many medals they give out every year'. For the record, Army Commanders are not 'local commanders', the term 'Army Commander' is just a generic term used for 'GOC-in-C' which means General Officer Commanding-in-Chief which by no run of imagination is a local commander. A GOC-in-C is the Commander of an Army Command (Western, South-Western, Central, Northern, Southern and Eastern) and functions directly next to the Chief of the Army Staff, the overall Commander of the Indian Army. Google search "Capt Navdeep Singh" to find out the man's contributions to the military populace of India, the guy is well respected and well hounoured in military circles. 61.2.16.70 07:18, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * Look Navdeep- please put the "newer" comments at the bottom of the talk page. Army Commander is the Commander of the "Region"- Western/ Central/Southern/Northern/Eastern as well as North Western. So they are not "National" but are regional, please see Indian Army for the structure. Haphar 08:34, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

SORRY FORGOT TO SIGN IN EARLIER

Please see for more details, also see omitted results in google

Militaryindia 15:23, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Here is a list of reasons why the article should not be deleted.

The reasons cited for deletion are basically that the person does not have any reports of receiving medals other than the 'Army COmmanders' commendation and only one is mentioned, others are not, it has further been reasoned that these medals are 'local medals' and there are 6 Army COmmanders in the Indian Army and the medals the person has received are not mentioned in any gazette. The second reason is that not much is available about the book he has authored.

In this regard, the following is respectfully submitted :-

1. According to independent reports, the person has not only received Commendations from 'Army COmmanders' but also from the 'Chief of the Army Staff' (COAS) who is the highest ranking officer in the INdian Army of 1.1 million men. He is the only one person who being a Territorial Army volunteer has received a total of 5 commendations as has been reported by various independent newspapers (and not just local press). He is also one of the rare TA volunteers to have received a commendation from the Air Force. Point to be noted is that TA volunteers spend just a few days in a year in uniform and still this person has been able to be decorated with so many awards. Here is a list of independent sources :

a) Govt release from an official web-site / military publication / gazette regarding COAS COmmendation in 2005 :- From Press Information Bureau of Govt of India :-

b) The Tribune press report on his latest award (and highest number of awards) in 2007 :-

c) Report on being decorated with a commendation from the Air Force alongwith a list of all his previous decorations :-

d) Another report on his latest decoration from Yahoo.com (sourced from Indian Express) :-

2. According to an argument, nothing has been found about his book. Please see the following sources :-

a) Press release about his book from The Tribune :- Besides this release the book release was greatly covered in other print media which is not available online. The book is quite popular amongst the legal and military community.

b) The book is also available online :-

3. The person's work on the defence community is well recognized, recorded and appreciated. He is the one resonsible for getting toll tax exempted for the men in uniform all over the country on the basis of the Indian Tolls Army & Air Force Act, 1901. Please see the following :-

a)

b)

c)

d)

e) Western Command Ex-Servicemen helpline :

4. Regarding other doubts about his achievements, it has been stated that 'googling' him has not resulted in the desired results, Please try "Capt Navdeep Singh" in quotes and then google and almost all results refer to him and his achievements.

Lawexpert 02:49, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

and Yes, when you google him, please do not google "captain navdeep singh" - it would not give desired results, Please google :- "Capt Navdeep Singh" instead. The rank 'Captain' is referred to as 'Capt' mostly in press and online.

Lawexpert 02:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Reply
Look Navdeep- please put the "newer" comments at the bottom of the talk page.That is the procedure on wikipedia. In the Indian army Army Commander is the Commander of the "Region"- Western/ Central/Southern/Northern/Eastern as well as North Western. Same for the Air force Commander ( inf act your link on the award mention commander of the "Western Air command" .So they are not "National" but are regional, please see Indian Army for the structure. Also the google gets 3-4 hits which are press releases, which does not equal independent write ups about an individual. You nic.gov.in links above are not accessible,and commendation by Army Commanders are NOT = medals received by defence personell so your self glorification at expense of other serving defence officers is unfortunate. Can you provide what number of Army Commander medals are given out in India in one year ? That would help decide notability of the awardHaphar 09:04, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Also "capt navdeep singh" and google does not change anything significantly, apart from the press releases already mentioned, there is no dramatic change, one gets 3-4 hits more, University professors can get 60-80 google hits thanks to their published works and we do not have a wikipedia article on each of them. The claim to notability can be established if you can show th notability of the awards mentioned. Haphar 09:07, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

PLEASE SEE THE FOLLOWING LINKS AND THEY ARE ALL ACCESSIBLEAll of these links are accessible contrary to the claims made above, and 'self glorification' ? Please delete the article if you think this has been placed by the man himself. I specialize in military law and I know this man's contribution. These are the links of govt gazettes / lists 'claimed' not to be accessible :-

[pib.nic.in/archieve/image/2005/r2005081502.pdf]





Lawexpert 14:59, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

SHOULD NOT BE DELETED

It is not correct to demean COAS Commendation or GOC-in-C's Commendation as has been done at the top of this page. And the links given by a user above are perfectly in working condition contrary to other claims on this page. I think it is also unfair to refer to the user 'lawexpert' as Navdeep. I have served in the military and I can say with much enthusiasm that the toll tax exemption granted to us men in uniform by Capt Navdeep Singh has made him a darling for the forces, though he already was because of his efforts to uplift war-widows and ex-servicemen in need. I think the user Haphar who has asked for deletion of this page has also served in the Army, I hope he has not served with Capt Navdeep Singh and thus having some old service grudge. and I'm also sure he must also be availing toll tax exemption the credit of which goes to the subject (Navdeep) of this talk page. Being based in north India, I know what this person has done for us. And with all these weblinks quoted by 'lawexpert', I don't think creditbility or notability is even a slightest suspect.

61.2.19.234 15:20, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Militaryindia 15:23, 5 April 2007 (UTC)


 * I cannot access the above links, may be it is a problem at my local isp. I have "no" military service, nor any interaction with Navdeep. Moving on- can we forget emotional appeals and focus on providing credibility to Army Commander's commendations ? And if you read properly, you will see that I have not demeaned Chief of army staff commendation but called it "more credible" than an Army Commander's commendation. ( that can be considered demeaning only if you rate the Army Commander's award as really too low for the COAS commendation to be compared with it ). An Army Commander's commendation is a "local" award in the sense that it is given out by the Regional Army Commander. All the weblinks only refer to the Army Commander commendation, which is what is being questioned- how important an award is an Army Commander commendation ? Is it carried by the news media beyond Chandigarh based newspaper ? Or Chandigarh Newline write ups ? All weblinks are of local edition news. So if all the write ups are due to a certain award, how important the award is decides notability.


 * If rhetoric is to decide credibility/notability let me state the following. "In North India 100% of serving and retired Army officers do not know of Capt Navdeep Singh, forget the general population." Like this claim cannot be verified, neither can the claim that you know what he has done. Please get some online write up on Army Commander's commendation and how important it is. No one is deleting the article, one is asking you to add to the article to prove notability. As of now Navdeep's only claim to fame is getting 4 Army/Air force Commander's commendations. All the writeups refer to that, so the notability of the Army Commander's commnedations would help. If you can demonstrate that the award is noteworthy there is no need for further debate. And to take the Army Commander's commendation as basis for calling Navdeep the most decorated person in the defence services at his age is demeaning to all serving officers with more "credible" medals than those won for fighting court cases.Haphar 15:44, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

REPLY FOR HAPHAR CLARIFYING CERTAIN DOUBTS

Quoting Haphar :- "Moving on- can we forget emotional appeals and focus on providing credibility to Army Commander's commendations ? And if you read properly, you will see that I have not demeaned Chief of army staff commendation but called it "more credible" than an Army Commander's commendation. ( that can be considered demeaning only if you rate the Army Commander's award as really too low for the COAS commendation to be compared with it )"

If you think Chief of the Army Staff's Commendation has more value, then please see in the following link that the person concerned has been decorated with COAS commendation also :-

- Please see under Territorial Army Also see that he was once awarded two decorations on the same day (including Chief of Army Staff's Commendation) :-

Hope this satisfies you.

Lawexpert 17:38, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

NOTABILITY ESTABLISHED TOO

Although I'm not a regular visitor,but now would be, I just became a member few days ago and am not too aware of the notability criterion as followed practically as opposed to the one published on this site, but now I feel for this particular article, notability has been adequately established with all the independent links and govt web pages. I think, the notability concern present on the article should now be removed.

Militaryindia 08:37, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

Notability concern not yet addressed
The debate is still on, please do not unilateraly remove the notability tag, wait for consensus. Here are the points 1. Do all COAS commendation medals warrant notability ?- Do they all have a wiki article ?- Ans No. 2. The main claim to fame is no of commendations, 3/4 of them being Army/ Airforce Commanders commendations, they are not notable and none of the links helps establish their notability, for instance they do not show any of the recepients who are notable. So can you please show that the Army commander commendation is notable. Haphar 09:55, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

CLARIFICATION ON CONCERNS ABOUT GOC-IN-C COMMENDATION (A.K.A ARMY COMMANDER'S COMMENDATION)

Let us not say that GOC-in-C's Commendation is not important enough or is a 'local' award or is not recognized. Point to be highlighted here is that even great old regiments of the Indian Army talk about GOC-in-C's commendation in a light full of pride. Please see the page for the 3rd Gorkha Rifles on wikipedia and you would observe that the Regiment was raised in the year 1815 and till date it has only 19 GOC-in-C Commendations in total and here we are talking about a single man who has within probably a short span of service earned 5 commendations in total including one by the Chief of the Army Staff. Ditto goes for Brigade of the Guards, again an old and heavily decorated regiment which in total only has 79 commendations.

For more on GOC-in-C's (Army COmmander's) Commendations and COAS COmmendations, the following wiki pages may be perused :-

3rd Gorkha Rifles :

Brigade of the Guards :

Please also see that the US Army also has a similar medal :-

This should clarify doubts about the value of the COmmendation in the Indian Army

59.94.251.204 16:57, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

CANNOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THE FUSS IS ABOUT

What's the fuss on this ?, if this article is voted for deletion, then I don't understand what qualifies. So many independent news reports and still a fuss !! However the article definitely needs wikification, as you guys call it. Can be placed in a better manner, but being a casual visitor I am unable to perfectly understand the finer aspects of doing it. Help in wikifying please.

SUPRISING THAT ONLY USER HAPHAR HAS A PROBLEM

It needs to be verified if the user Haphar has some old problem with the the person in this article since time and again he has been inserting the notability tag while running over others as can clearly be seen from the history of the main page. It can also be seen from the history that no one else but the same Person - Haphar has insisted on speedy deletion in the past and is only after the life of this article. As suggested above, it is very much possible that this person may have served in the military with the subject of this article since the user page of Haphar definitely suggests a military background because he has declared the places where he has lived in the past - AND THEY ARE ALL ARMY STATIONS / POSTS.

Get a life
And how do you propose to verify if I have a problem with Navdeep ? . Instead of making allegations can you try and first get and id and sign your comments ? Then maybe someone might take you more seriously rather than react to anonymous snipings. Let me mention some of cities, all of which are Army stations- Gurdaspur, Pathankot, Bhatinda, Patiala, Sangrur, Simla, Nahan, Amballa, Bareilly, Lucknow, Kanpur, Patna, Gaya, Wardha, Jabalpur, Gwalior, Agra, Bina, Babina, Jhansi, Babina, Jaipur, Jodhpur, Bikaner, Itarsi,Cochin,Chennai, Oooty, Wellington, Pune, Ahmadnagar, Aurangabad,Nasik, Darjling, Siliguri, Jalpaiguri,Kohima, Tezpur, Shillong, Cannanore, Mangalore, Karwar, Goa, Nagpur, Ahemdabad, Jamnagar, Haridwar, Joshimath, Badrinath, Guahati, Coimbatore, Mysore. The Point I am making ? There are not too many places in India that one can work which are not an Army station. I am not in the Army, my father was which explains half the list. The rest of the cities I have been working and moving to- very much in the civilian sector, And very much metropolitan locations. I do not know Navdeep Singh, just enough of the army to recognise what is noteworthy in decorations and what is not. Haphar 08:52, 4 June 2007 (UTC)


 * And Incidentally Yamunanagar is not/does not have an Army base.Haphar 07:10, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

'''HAPHAR, READING YOUR STUFF MAKES IT CLEAR THAT YOU HAVE HAD A RUN-IN WITH THE SUBJECT. AND STOP CALLING ME OR OTHER PEOPLE 'NAVDEEP', THIS IS SO CHILDISH''' Firstly, the comment above your comment was made by me and not someone anonymous, you can see the edit history and verify. And secondly, I strongly object your calling me and others 'Navdeep' on this page / article. Thirdly, your consistency in bringing down the house on this article confirms your problems with this person in the past, or maybe someone in your family who may have served the Indian Military would be having some beef or a run-in with this person. Fourthly, you are the only one (THE ONLY ONE!!!)inserting the notability clause in this article time and again, many others have visited this page and contributed but you are the only one who earlier insisted on deletion and now on notability, what does it show ? GRUDGE !!!. Please do not bring your personal problems on to this forum. Whoever posts on this page is referred to as 'Navdeep' by you. Neutrals should come in and decide Lawexpert 12:19, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

Clear to only Navdeep
What is more clear is your being Navdeep. There is not one iota of evidence that you have to show that I have had a run in with Navdeep. Its a figment of your imagination. And incidentally shouting is a sign of childishness, and writing in capitals is in todays networked world equals shouting, so first get your hackles, your voice and your capitalisation down, stop being Childish and get to be polite. Second different ip addresses and login names parroting the same lines about Navdeep ( and about me having a run in with him) only confirms that it is the same person editing. Likelihood being Navdeep. Self glorification is not wikipedia's purpose, please desist. Haphar 14:42, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

And this further shows who is Navdeep, who else would write upon the Territorial Army ? Haphar 14:53, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

HAPAHR YOU GO GET A LIFE

I have written on Territorial Army since I am an expert in Military affiars especially Military Law, with a special concern for voluntary forces and hence the knowledge of this article and many other TA officers and men. You please have a look at the edit history of the article and it would be clear to you that you are the only one having a problem with the entire article and also the only one with negative vibes and rantings. Politness is definitely not your forte and calling me and others 'Navdeep' would prove just that. Self glorification it is not since I do not even personally know Navdeep Singh, but everyone in today's army knows about his contributions. Lawexpert 02:33, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Stop shouting pls, it is infantile
Not to mention it is not polite to misspell someones name.So please do look at your own behaviour before commenting on any one's politeness Haphar 09:09, 11 June 2007 (UTC)