Talk:Nazi persecution of the Catholic Church in Germany

Persecution vs. prosecution
We're making an editorial judgment to include Nazi actions against accused pedofile priests under the heading "persecution of the Catholic Church." I took particular exception to this line: "'1935-6 was the height of the 'immorality' trials against priests, monks, lay-brothers and nuns. In the United States, protests were organised in response to the sham trials...'" We now know enough about the prevalence of priestly sexual abuse to have at least a doubt about whether these were in any sense "sham trials." I would remove all reference to immorality charges from this section, since they might very well have been proper prosecution rather that persecution. pagnol 15:54, 20 January 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Camdenmaine (talk • contribs)


 * your faith in the Nazi justice system is bewildering, but, in any case, that crime is not even mentioned in the texts and you present no evidence for your theory. Historians are unequivocal because the documentation is clear: sham trials were conducted against catholic religious as part of an effort to reduce the influence of Christianity on society. Be careful about libeling victims sent to the Nazi concentration camps without possessing evidence. It starts to look like Holocaust denial. Observoz (talk) 13:33, 25 February 2019 (UTC)

Orphaned references in Nazi persecution of the Catholic Church in Germany
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Nazi persecution of the Catholic Church in Germany's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Ian Kershaw p.381-382": From Catholic Church and Nazi Germany: Ian Kershaw; Hitler a Biography; 2008 Edn; W.W. Norton & Co; London; pp. 381–82 From Catholic resistance to Nazi Germany: Ian Kershaw; Hitler a Biography; 2008 Edn; WW Norton & Company; London; p. 381–382 From Pope Pius XI: Ian Kershaw; Hitler a Biography; 2008 Edn; WW Norton & Company; London; p.381-382 

Reference named "William L. Shirer p240": From Catholic Church and Nazi Germany: William L. Shirer; The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich; Secker & Warburg; London; 1960; p. 240 From Kirchenkampf: William L. Shirer; The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich; Secker & Warburg; London; 1960; p240 

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 13:08, 22 November 2013 (UTC)

This page is the result of christian apologetic BS. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.28.86.35 (talk) 03:22, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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Ref improve template
I cleaned up some tag bombing here [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Germany&diff=836834637&oldid=836833463] — of about 20+ citation needed tags and added a refimprove template. removed it here asking editors to add individual tags [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Nazi_persecution_of_the_Catholic_Church_in_Germany&diff=839119396&oldid=839119114]. Please do not re-add the individual tags — if there is a consensus for removal of the template, tacit or otherwise, that is fine but this should be stated clearly in the edit summary that it was removed by a consensus that the sourcing in the article is adequate. Seraphim System ( talk ) 21:14, 1 May 2018 (UTC)

Re: Source Link #12
The link in question seems to be defunct, thought I'd bring it to your awareness. --45.18.185.176 (talk) 22:14, 22 June 2019 (UTC)

No article on the persecution of the PROTESTANT Church?
I assume there was no Nazi persecution of the Protestant Church, as there is no article about it: Nazi persecution of the Protestant Church in Germany? 89.204.138.226 (talk) 07:02, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

"Persecution"
The relations between Nazism and the Catholic Church certainly merits an article, and there are plenty of WP:RS to support this. However, the idea there was a "Nazi persecution" (which implies a concerted and planned attack on individual Catholics because of their religion) is dubious and potentially is a WP:POVPUSH. It also raises a potential comparison (as currently in Template:The Holocaust) between the "Nazi persecution of the Catholic Church" and the genuine and well-attested persecutions of Jews, Slavs, Freemasons, members of certain Christian sects and others. This does not seems reasonable. My understanding of the literature is that the Nazi Party in Germany cracked down on Catholic political and cultural organisations because they threatened the Nazi monopoly on public life but that anti-Christian beliefs were marginal even within the Nazi movement. Currently the Reichskonkordat doesn't even mention a sub-section of its own because of the slant which the title places on the article.

I have no strong preferences for a rename, but something like Nazi hostility towards the Catholic Church or Nazi anti-clericalism might be more appropriate. —Brigade Piron (talk) 16:50, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

child abuse
Obviously, Catholic Church had not been prosecuted (or persecuted) adequately for organized crime regarding child abuse. So things might have been more complicated than this article suggests. 94.217.12.221 (talk) 21:46, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
 * In NS-Germany they were taken on on this - That's what passes now as "religious persecution" now. --105.4.0.106 (talk) 19:28, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
 * I wonder, if taking on Paederasts wasn't behind the "persecution of Homosexuals" as well. --105.4.0.106 (talk) 19:29, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

Conflation
Between religion and politics. Purely religious activity was not persecuted nor prosecuted. What was taken on was political Catholicism or Protestantism that was going against the state. That is however a totally different matter. So is prosecution of clergy that sexually abused children. But some Catholics have that attitude, whenever anyone of their own - especially clergy - gets a problem with the law, the government or even criticised, then that is "religious persecution". That's quite rich, given how many Germans were killed on behalf of the Catholic Church, e.g. Protestants or Baptists. They never apologised for this or paid compensation for this. Sometimes it seems they are even proud of this. And well, lets not forget that Germans paid Church Tax also in NS-Germany. So I doubt anyone can seriously talk about "Religious Persecution of the Catholic Church in Germany". That's simply intellectually dishonest. Even if that's kind of typical. It still is. --105.4.7.140 (talk) 19:07, 3 April 2021 (UTC)