Talk:Nazim Al-Haqqani/Archive 1

Consolidating articles
There is an almost identical page about this person at; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazim_al-Qubrusi  The goal, once I investigate the proper proceedure, is to consolidate that previous page with this correctly titled page. The name Nazim al-Qubrusi is not widely used and the Mawlana Sheikh Nazim Al-Haqqani is what 99% of the people who know him, refer to him as. If you can offer advise on how to consolidate these pages or point to an area where to learn more, I would greatly appreciate it. Thank you!!
 * The redirect has been done already on Aug 26, 2010. --Edoe (talk) 22:06, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Proposal for deletion
I have removed the proposal for deletion. I redirected the other article to this one, made some changes here to get rid of some WP:peacock terms and added some wikilinks. If he is the Grandsheik of the Naqshbandi-Haqqani Golden Chain he is definitely notable, but this article needs some references.Editor2020 (talk) 01:58, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit
Please edit the following:

His Majesty Sultan Hassanal Bolkiah of Brunei. His Highness Sri Sultan Hamengkubuwono X of Yogyakarta and several members of Malaysia's royal families, including His Highness Prince Raja Dato' Seri Ashman Shah have taken initiation into the Naqshbandi-Haqqani Order at his hand.

Value latent language should be avoided on an academic website such as this. There is no such person or thing called "his majesty" or "highness" or "prince". Furthermore, royal titles are somewhat controversial and forbidden in Islam, even though the usage of these terms/concepts frequently occurs in many places around the world.

I'm sure Sheikh Nazim would agree the only thing that truly deserves to be called majestic or royal, is the One. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.97.19 (talk) 06:14, 3 October 2010 (UTC)

Suggestions
It would be good to show some of the negative publicity to get the correct image of nazim due to the fact a very large population of the muslim world consider him to be heretic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.174.236.100 (talk) 05:55, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

Both Rumi and Jilani?
Abdul Qadir Jilani was culturally Persian but racially Arab, while Rumi was culturally and racially Tajik Persian. Rumi was not a descendant of Jilani, so if the subject of this article is a descendant of both as claimed then it would have to be from the two different sides of his family. Haqqani, however, is a Turkish Cypriot.

It's theoretically possible that he could be the descendant of both, but I am skeptical per WP:QUESTIONABLE. The given source is Hisham Kabbani, a follower of Haqqani who said he became a spiritual leader after the prophet Muhammad called him on the phone and told him to. Given the heavy focus of lineage and familial ties in Sufism, it's within the realm of possibility that the claim is apocryphal or merely an embellishment. Until a second source can be found, his lineage really shouldn't be stated as absolute fact but rather as Kabbani's personal view. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:51, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * User:MezzoMezzo, I've added a second source. Does that suffice? I'm very new to Wikipedia, and I actually made the edit before looking at the talk page. The last time I do that I hope. There is no source at present that questions that at least Haqqani himself traced his lineage as such. Is that enough for us to at least put the attribution in his mouth rather than only that of his follower?Bapehu (talk) 14:01, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Fake Gurdjieff story
There seems to be some attempt to spread the false story that Haqqani was a teacher and associate of G.I.Gurdjieff. A similar falsity is spread by the Haqqanis which say that Haqqani "was present during the meetings of his shaykh with Gurdjieff which led to the formation of the Gurdjieff spiritual movement and the Enneagram." This is a chronological absurdity. Haqqani was born in 1922 and met his his teacher, Shaykh Abdullah Daghestani, for the first time in 1945. Gurdjieff started teaching his system in Russia c. 1914 and spent all his time in Europe, England and America after 1922; he died in 1949. Haqqani would never have met him. These stories seem to be based on an unsubstantiated account found in a book that came out in 1995 written by Haqqani's deputy, Sheikh Kabbani-- not an objective source-- which claims that in 1920, Gurdjieff, while temporarily living in Turkey, visited Sheikh Sharafuddin Daghestani, who was the teacher of Sheikh Abdullah Daghestani. The two of them supposedly met with Gurdjieff at that time, before Haqqani was even born. Later, in the 1950's, years after Gurdjieff's death, J.G. Bennett met with Abdullah Daghestani in Damascus, a meeting described in Bennett's book Witness. Neither Sheikh Haqqani nor the supposed 1920 meeting between Gurdjieff and the two Daghestani Sheikhs are mentioned in Bennett's account. Jlburton (talk) 06:24, 18 May 2014 (UTC)jlburton — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jlburton (talk • contribs) 06:17, 18 May 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Jlburton, your explanation does make sense. Had I been aware of all this, I wouldn't have reverted you like I did. Thanks for clarifying the reasoning, this helps to improve the article. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:59, 19 May 2014 (UTC)
 * User:Jlburton What is your source for the quote attributed to the Haqqani's above? "was present during the meetings of his shaykh with Gurdjieff which led to the formation of the Gurdjieff spiritual movement and the Enneagram." Bapehu (talk) 17:32, 23 November 2014 (UTC)

Inclusion in The 500 Most Influential Muslims
Haqqani was named among the world's top 50 most influential muslims in every year of this annual publication prior to his death in 2014, i.e. 2009:49th, 2010:49th, 2011:48th, 2012:45th, and 2013:42nd. The individual publications are available in pdf form behind a email gateway on the website I've referenced. Is that sufficient reference or do I need to go and refer to each annual pdf as its own physical book? Thanks in advance for your patience. Bapehu (talk) 13:43, 23 November 2014 (UTC)
 * , each individual reference is a lot of work for a point which I don't think anyone will dispute. If someone wants to dig up all the various references than fine, but that probably isn't necessary. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:28, 24 November 2014 (UTC)

Biography of a Living Person?
Dear User:GimliDotNet and all: The WP:BLP guideline clearly states 4.5.1 that the policy also applies to the recently deceased. Haqqani passed away in May of this year. Why would we not apply BLP? I am a newby and trying to understand the criteria. Thanks. Bapehu (talk) 21:40, 24 November 2014 (UTC)


 * That policy relates to particularly contentious information, the removed information was not particularly contentious.  GimliDotNet ( Speak to me,  Stuff I've done )  21:55, 24 November 2014 (UTC)
 * User:GimliDotNet I'm not sure. This source of questionable reliability, esp. for quotations of the subject, is putting in subjects mouth that he has made repeated specific predictions which have failed. Source says that subject himself sources these predictions to Muslim prophet Muhammad. This is particularly contentious because this subjects noteworthiness is based on his position as a Muslim cleric. The clear implication is that he is that this Muslim cleric would in effect attribute a lie to the central figure of the religion, its prophet Muhammad. Is this not particularly contentious? User: MezzoMezzo: care to weigh-in? Bapehu (talk) 03:38, 25 November 2014 (UTC)


 * The subject of the article is dead, so BLP doesn't apply. MezzoMezzo (talk) 03:55, 25 November 2014 (UTC)