Talk:Neanderthal anatomy

Skin colour?
Should it not be mentioned on this page?


 * Neanderthal white?

http://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2014/01/28/267923336/neanderthal-genes-live-on-in-our-hair-and-skin "Some of the Neanderthal genes may have been more beneficial for our fully human ancestors than they genes they had. Those Neanderthal genes came to dominate certain human traits, including a gene related to keratin, a protein in hair and skin. 'We don't know exactly ... which trait they were influencing, but they likely have something to do with skin or hair biology,' Akey says. Africans didn't pick up those traits, since Neanderthals originated in Europe. But this crossbreeding may affect how Europeans and Asians look today."


 * And not hairy

Rogers, Alan R.; Iltis, David; Wooding, Stephen (2004). "Genetic Variation at the MC1R Locus and the Time since Loss of Human Body Hair". Current Anthropology 45: 105–8. doi:10.1086/381006. JSTOR 381006. "Comparisons between known skin pigmentation genes in chimpanzees and modern Africans show that dark skin evolved along with the loss of body hair about 1.2 million years ago and is the ancestral state of all humans." Kortoso (talk) 19:56, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

Citation needed
I added a citation needed to the following part:

"Compared to Europeans some 20,000 years ago, this is nearly identical, perhaps slightly taller."

I have seen sources and documentaries state Europeans at that time averaged 5'8"-5'9" and didn't shrink in size until they became agricultrual based rather than hunter-gatherers.

Human height has not been on a constand upward trend and average height for europeans actually shrank with the arrival of mass agricultrue due to less variety and quality of nutrition offered through hunting and gathering.

Quite frankly, I think that the entire line should be removed and the lines preceding it should be re-worded.ArmorPierce (talk) 17:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Anatomy of shoulder
I seem to recall reports that Neanderthals could not throw a spear effectively, because of a restriction in the range of motion of their shoulder joints prevented their use of an overhand throw. If this is true, it should be included in the article, as this difference in functionality is relevant to hunting techniques. Would someone who knows about this please make the relevant additions to the article. Janice Vian, Ph.D. (talk) 16:13, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

( I have just corrected an apparent vandalism of this entry, which I authored 7 years ago.)

Please, it's been seven years since I asked for some informed discussion of Neanderthals' shoulder anatomy and their ability to throw projectiles or rocks. Janice Vian, Ph.D. (talk) 23:24, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

The average height in the US is five foot six. Five to six inches shorter is "just above five feet" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.254.128 (talk) 05:44, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

Height
I fail to see how 5'5-5'6 is 5-5.5 inches shorter than the average 21st century human, as far as I know the average modern human is not 5'10-5'11.5 tall. Mike.BRZ (talk) 18:57, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Foot vs Footprint
This page contains a mockup of a complete Neanderthal skeleton with normal looking feet which are probably just concocted from minimal real evidence, and then what appears to be a real footprint with a caption claiming it to be a footprint in the Natural History Museum in Prague; the footprint of course is clearly that of an ape and resembles the foot in the skeleton in no way, shape, or manner. I wouldn't like the betting odds of that being evidence of a human-like Neanderthal having once had a pet gorilla.....

The attempts to paint these guys as if they were close relatives of modern humans appear to be recent. Scholars writing about them in the late 1800s and early 1900s appear to have had a better grasp of what they were seeing with one major scholar claiming they had prehensile feet as your footprint shows.

In general, the picture we now have of the Neanderthal has totally changed, and Wiki's entire page on the topic is basically obsolete. You might want to take a look at www.themandus.org for starters. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neanderbear (talk • contribs) 14:59, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The photograph has been rotated 90 degrees, and the obvious foreshortening in the original is not apparent here and at Wikipedia commons. The original looks much more human. Lavateraguy (talk) 09:32, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

No amount of rotation or shortening is going to make that big toe go out from the foot the way it does. Nice try. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Neanderbear (talk • contribs) 18:45, 24 April 2012 (UTC)


 * Vendramini is not a scientist, although he does raise some interesting points. He's an author and filmmaker and just wants to sell his book. Kortoso (talk) 19:44, 8 December 2015 (UTC)
 * @Neanderbear - You are mistaken in several points, most notably about the footprint. As you can see on this page - "[Gorilla] Physical Characteristics", https://seaworld.org/animals/all-about/gorilla/characteristics/ - the gorilla print is nothing like the photo in this article. That print was made in some very mushy soil or sand where the walker had to push off hard against their big toe, just like we do in such a situation. The piggies are all in a row, just like a Neanderthal's would be. You can check that here in this skeleton at the Smithsonian website - https://humanorigins.si.edu/evidence/human-fossils/fossils/neanderthal-composite-skeleton.
 * These people were athletic, had jewelry (shell & eagle talon necklaces), were artistic (paintings older than 66,000 years found in 3 Spanish caves, 20,000 years before Sapiens showed up in Spain), buried their dead and appear to have used floral tributes), manipulated fire, wore clothing and made bedding, made string (maybe wove it into fabric?), made a strong adhesive, and had empathy and love for injured group members. Shanidar 1 is an adult male who had been severely injured in his life - head wound, had to have his right lower arm removed (surgery!), among other grievous damage. He could not have cared for himself, yet lived for a number of years afterwards. His group kept him safe and fed.
 * Thank you for your time. I hope you look into the lives of the Neanderthals; it's fascinating. Wordreader (talk) 21:14, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

Species, Breed
'tis been proven that the Neanderthal is a breed of h. Sapiens rather than a species other than h. Sapiens. Consider the article's information to be antiquated, as a 2010 study by Thomas Higham proved the Neanderthal to be a breed of h. Sapiens. Color me confused. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Escallic (talk • contribs) 06:47, 11 October 2014 (UTC)


 * Nope. That's far from decided. Looks like we are all "confused" (i.e. not blessed with sufficient data). Kortoso (talk) 19:47, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

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