Talk:Neartown Houston

Montrose and Neartown
If Montrose is in Neartown, and doesn't have the same boundaries as Neartown then shouldn't there be a separate article for Montrose?
 * Agreed. Montrose needs its own article.--168.122.206.106 11:06, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I think Postoak is working on an article for Montrose.--Thenderson1 16:31, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, the Montrose article is here (in sandbox mode). Please feel free to edit in any way. I copied some of the text from here to the new article. We can move Montrose to a live article whenever you feel it's ready. Thanks for your help, Postoak 16:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
 * The Montrose article was moved from the sandbox to a "live" article tonight. Postoak 03:30, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Should Neartown and Montrose articles be merged? It seems to be the same location. Sandcherry (talk) 03:16, 25 December 2013 (UTC)
 * I think I found an answer. https://www.neartown.org/our-history states that there was an original Montrose that was platted in 1911, and that Neartown includes many other neighborhoods. What complicates things is that some older subdivisions have lost their names/identity except in legal documents while new subdivisions formed out of the old ones. That's why I'm archiving block book maps, so the historical info is kept if/when the Harris County block book site is taken down. https://www.neartown.org/our-boundaries states: "(Today, “Neartown” and “Montrose” are generally used interchangeably to refer to this area.)" WhisperToMe (talk) 17:26, 6 April 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for including the maps. As you know, Wikipedia has two articles describing the same physical area – Neartown and Montrose. The City of Houston refers to the area as Neartown / Montrose:  https://www.houstontx.gov/superneighborhoods/24.html   I have lived in the Vermont, Park, Hyde Park and East Montrose Civic Association areas. My neighbors called each area Montrose, never Neartown or Neartown / Montrose. It seems one article should be sufficient and titled either Neartown / Montrose per the city designation or Montrose as it is referred to by the locals. Thoughts? Sandcherry (talk) 16:13, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
 * So long as contemporary sources agree that Montrose and Neartown are the same thing I'd be okay with a merge. Doing some more research, I found that in the 1970s the boundaries were already fuzzy and took a more expansive view of what Montrose is (as per Texas Monthly) though they set West Gray as the northern border instead of Allen Parkway
 * "It's hard to say just exactly where the Montrose starts and stops because residents are always arguing, with equal vehemence, whether they should or should not be considered part of "that place." It's that kind of neighborhood: people either want in or out of it. Generally speaking, though, one can define the borders as West Gray to the north, Shepherd Drive on the west, the Southwest Freeway to the south, and Smith Street on the east (about 7.5 square miles with some 30,000 inhabitants.)"
 * ... it seems like the 1910s boundaries were already escaping the public consciousness.
 * Honestly I have no idea where the Houston Chronicle boundary came from, as in was it the boundaries of Link's original settlement, or was it something else? In determining the zoned schools for Montrose I actually used the Chronicle boundary, but because of the way the school zones are drawn, much of the same schools serve the narrower and wider conceptions of "Montrose" anyway.
 * Thankfully it seems like I found the original 1910s block book maps of Montrose from the Harris County Appraisal Department http://books.tax.hctx.net/BlockBooksPDF/v026/AE1997_25-26_0419.pdf and http://books.tax.hctx.net/v026/AE1997_25-26_0419.jpg seem to be the first one and http://books.tax.hctx.net/v026/AE1997_25-26_0421.jpg lists the additions. I'll list and archive these when I get the chance.
 * WhisperToMe (talk) 10:15, 4 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Comparing this Chron map to the Houston Land Corporation Map (tilted on the side) it seems like the Chron map includes Montrose (original), Montrose Annex (to the west), and Lockard Connor and Barziza Addition (to the southeast), defining that as Montrose. WhisperToMe (talk) 20:01, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Spanish
Spanish articles: WhisperToMe (talk) 02:21, 5 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Peralta, Eyder and Claudia Feldman. "Parte 3: El dolor y las consecuencias." Houston Chronicle. 6 June 2006. Posted online on Wednesday December 13, 2006.

Get rid of Crime section?
I'm thinking that we should remove the crime section in this article. One murder that occurred six years ago is not representative of the neighborhood. It also looks like the section was written by someone (a student at Lamar maybe?) that was in or trying to get into this "gang." I use quotations because Crazy Crew is not a known gang listed by the Stop Houston Gangs Task Force. If anyone objects, then please let me know. If I don't hear any objections after a week or so then I'll remove it. Gmios (talk) 04:34, 12 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Agree. Again. Sandcherry (talk) 00:17, 13 April 2012 (UTC)

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Harris County block book maps
It's good to keep track of the pages in the Harris County block books indicating subdivision locations. Doing this helps clarify which areas are in which community, and they also show the history of Houston's development (replats are found). Also the county's map search system is missing pages, and some pages are out of order (sometimes the county search system brings up the wrong page :. That's why keeping track of them is important.
 * Talk:Neartown Houston/block book maps

If you find new pages, archive both the JPGs (better quality) and PDFs (worse quality) on the Internet Archive, the former on Archive.is, and the latter on webcitation.org. both on Megalodon.jp

Modern map of neighborhoods

Some parts are at: O. Smith Lot 4, Volume 44: http://books.tax.hctx.net/BlockBooksPDF/v044/AE1997_Vol_44-2_0224.pdf and http://books.tax.hctx.net/v044/AE1997_Vol_44-2_0224.jpg

(content moved to subpage)

WhisperToMe (talk) 11:07, 28 March 2019 (UTC)

Montrose and Neartown the same?
Why are there Wikipedia articles for both Montrose and Neartown? The two articles' introductions suggest they are very similar, if not the same. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 05:38, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Great question! I think there are different definitions of Montrose, so sometimes it refers to a smaller area and sometimes to an expanded area, while Neartown always refers to the expanded area. I honestly don't know what the "consensus" is of what Montrose "is". One would have to do a literature review of Houston publications to see. WhisperToMe (talk) 06:44, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
 * It appears the Montrose article was created to distinguish a Montrose neighborhood (First Montrose Commons and perhaps areas adjacent to it) from the larger Neartown area. The Montrose article has since been expanded to include items outside this area making it overlap with the Neartown article.  To make things more confusing, Montrose is the name locals and others use for the Neartown area.  At the risk of adding OR to this page, there are a couple reasons for this.  First, Neartown is geographically indeterminate.  The neighborhood next to and west of Center City (near town so to speak) is called Midtown.  Midtown, the Heights and other neighborhoods surrounding Center City are "near town".  The Houston city government and Realtor publications use Montrose and Neartown interchangeably or refer to the area as Montrose-Neartown.  I have never heard anyone including Realtors refer to Montrose as Neartown.  The second reason is more subjective.  Montrose is a collection of neighborhoods including Montrose, East Montrose (which is actually north of First Montrose Commons), North Montrose, Hyde Park, Vermont Commons, etc.  Montrose is more well known than the other neighborhoods so it has become a catch all term for Neartown neighborhoods.  An alternate to combining the articles (which I prefer) is to rid the Montrose article of items that are not specific to First Montrose Commons.  This would undoubtedly raise objections as not everyone will agree that Montrose does not refer to the entire Neartown area and for good reason. As WhisperToMe points out, obtaining consensus would be difficult as there are sources that support both the Neartown and Montrose names. Here is a link to the Montrose neighborhood map:  https://www.neartown.org/our-boundaries  Sandcherry (talk)
 * Interesting, the last link you shared says, "Today, “Neartown” and “Montrose” are generally used interchangeably to refer to this area.". I agree sources use both names, but that's not a reason to have 2 separate articles about the same area. I was hoping a few more editors would weigh in here, but we may need to force a consensus by simply starting a formal merge discussion. --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 18:11, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I'm all for a formal merge discussion! WhisperToMe (talk) 18:13, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree. Sandcherry (talk) 18:58, 20 December 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ --- Another Believer ( Talk ) 16:56, 23 December 2020 (UTC)