Talk:Necromantic bells

Binding of Orannis
I'm not entirely sure whether the second binding of Orannis should be discussed under the Necromancer Bells section. I can see how the bells and their wielders would be relevant to the binding of Orannis, but I am unsure of exactly how relevant the binding of Orannis is to the discussion of the bells. It would be a more meaningful addition if, for example, what role each particular bell alone was discussed, as well as who wielded it and when. Unfortunately, however, I do not believe that this information is specified within the Garth Nix Abhorsen books. Does anyone else have any thoughts on this? I am leaving this information in the article, for now, but I may delete it, depending on what opinions others have on the subject. Thanks for your input! Abhorsen327 02:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Although we have discussed this outside of Wikipedia, Abhorsen, (and I thus remain neutral to any consensus) I agree. The information currently regarding the binding of Orannis is not relevant enough to this article, although it might be relevant to Abhorsen. I suggest a move to that article or deletion, either choice being applied to the descriptions in question. Nihiltres 02:54, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Merge?
I'm wondering if this should be merged into a single page, with the other important artifacts of the Old Kingdom series, such as Nehima, the swords of the Abhorsen and of the royal family, and the Book of the Dead. While this article has enough information to stand alone, I think the category of the Old Kingdom series as a whole would benefit from merging several categories of information regarding the series' universe. Comments? Abhorsen327 13:45, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
 * While I support merges of articles that cannot individually rise from stub size, Necromancer bells as an article seems to be appropriately sized. I recommend a merge to a different page, perhaps Artifacts from the Old Kingdom series or some such title… Nihiltres 03:37, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Title of this article
This is just a technicality, but shouldn't it be "Necromatic Bells," not "Necromancer Bells?" I'd change it myself, but I have no idea how to do so.12.17.189.77 16:29, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting point. The bells are not directly named as "Necromancer bells" in the book, but are repeatedly referred to as "the bells of a necromancer". It would seem then that "Necromancer bells" is thus ok as an active form of "bells of a necromancer"; also, shouldn't your alternate form be spelled "Necrmantic bells"? In addition, please note that capitalization matters - the second word should not be capitalized. I personally moved this page from "Necromancer Bells" to "Necromancer bells". Let's see what a third party thinks before acting without consensus. (I also recommend, 12.17.189.77, that you register on wikipedia!) Nihiltres 19:18, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes "Necromantic" is correct, I just checked Abhorsen.Emmett5 04:53, 19 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I changed it - go me! U-Mos 11:05, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Hahahaha I completely forgot about this (now complete) page move and it caught me off guard. This comment is useless, but I was compelled to post it. Have a nice day :). Nihiltres 02:11, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

Relevance of Ringers at the Second Binding
OK this may border on opinion more than fact and I don't presume to be first to notice, but what do you think of the significance of each person who rings the bells at the second binding of Orannis?

Ranna - Touchstone - He himself says it is fitting obviously because he was in an enchanted sleep for the duration of Interregnum.

Mosrael - Sanar & Ryelle - This bell is rund by the Clayr; those in whom the Sight awakens.

Kibeth - The Disreputable Dog - Aside from being Kibeth herself, the Dog is the only one of the Seven who still walks in the Old Kingdom.

Dyrim - Ellimere - There are several associations with Ellimere and speech, not least that Sam wishes she would stop talking to him all the time.

Belgaer - Sameth - If the only living Wallmaker is not a representation of thought, I don't know what is?

Saraneth - Sabriel - Sabriel is not only the archetypical Abhorsen (as far as we see) and thus suited to the favoured bell of the Abhorsens, but is also bound to walk the path of the Abhorsen (this is a central theme of Sabriel).

Astarael - Lirael - Who better to ring the bell that brings death than the person who contemplates suicide a number of times and who, moreso than any of the other ringers, is prepared to die in the act of the second binding.

As I said, it's probably just opinion, but does anyone think there is a case to be made for including this?

boughtod 09:47, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
 * While I completely agree with your interpretation, it's completely unverifiable - we can't include it, per WP:OR and/or WP:V because it hasn't been confirmed anywhere. Nihiltres 00:35, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

latest update
I have a vague feeling that the latest link update is original research. However, I also have a vague feeling I read something related to this on one of Garth Nix's websites. In the future, I'll and locate this link. --CmaccompH89 00:55, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Neither the site nor the books explicitly say this, although it's logical to assume that the Fifth Precinct is the other of the nine in which a bell is not made. I'll remove the statement, since the problem can only be solved by noting that that statement is corroborated nowhere - proving that it fails WP:NOR. Nihiltres(t.c.s) 14:16, 3 May 2007 (UTC)

I may have found some form of verification on this link site under the section of "Gates and Precincts of Death" --CmaccompH89 00:27, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Does it say it explicitly anywhere? I don't see the verification, even "There are only seven bells, or so the book says, though there are nine precincts and nine gates of Death. As I write this, I have not yet found in the book where my next bell must be quenched. I have three" does not say anything explicitly. I agree with the statement, but speculation is inappropriate. Nihiltres(t.c.s) 03:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I suppose you're right. I apologize if I wasted your time, I know that site took a while to read. --CmaccompH89 06:18, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That's fine, not a waste of time at all. I'd love to fill in the blanks left implicitly filled by Nix, but that would probably consitute fancruft, particularly in the sense that it cannot be sourced, and it doesn't quite fit with the MoS entry either. It's annoying sometimes, but the rules make sense in terms of writing a good encyclopedia. Cheers, Nihiltres(t.c.s) 15:46, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Proposed Merge
Please see this discussion, where there is a proposal to merge this article into another one. Comments are welcome. sbfw | talk 00:29, 25 February 2008 (UTC)