Talk:Neil Turbin

Clean-up
There is inaccurate infomation that Neil Turbin was only on the one Anthrax album "Fistful Of Metal". This is false information. His songs and vocals are on Soldiers Of Metal 45 released in 1983, Compilations Hell Comes To Your House released by Music For Nations in 1984, Armed And Dangerous released in 1985, Spreading The Disease released in 1986. Fistful Of Anthrax released in 1987 on Polystar Records. This information paints a false picture of the truth and these are just a small portion of the Anthrax releases with Neil Turbin. Due to the rigid standards of Wikipedia and uptightness of Wiki Police Editors and Bots, it appears that slander, libel and misinformation reigns supreme on Wiki, versus allowing someone to correct the inaccuracies and misperceptions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.85.46 (talk) 02:54, 1 October 2008 (UTC)

I have tidied & cleaned a bit; clearly there is more to do. I have added Fact templates, mostly to remind myself of what to look up, not to make the thing look unreferenced.

The question of whether Turbin was the original vocalist for Anthrax is probably not going to make someone happy. If anyone has proof that he was, please show it (cite the reference) before changing it. At the moment, i have gone by the Anthrax article and the List of Anthrax band members, both of which indicate that he was not orignal, but that at least John Connelly and Dirk Kennedy were prior members & vocalists. I will continue to revert, unless a ciation is provided otherwise. Cheers, Lindsay 14:23, 6 May 2008 (UTC)


 * John Connelly and Dirk Kennedy were not ever actual members of the band. They DID spend time in the studio, often taking the microphone and "filling in" with vocal parts while the band worked on their songs. during this time, those people supported the interests of the band as they sought a permanent vocalist to perform and record on the demonstration material that would ultimately lead to the funded recording of an album. the vocalist chosen as the "Official Frontman / Lead Vocalist" of the band was chosen as Neil Turbin. The evidence of this is factual on every printed album insert, liner note and tray card of the bands first release - it is indisputable.


 * In further effort to provide proof that Turbin was not only the vocalist on the first official release, but on the demos that led to the bands first official release, I am including links to interview material, article content and noteworthy citations where applicable.


 * Also, Lindsay, you have no right to demean or harass the artist by removing his official photo from his page. It is a historical reference on Neil Turbin, and the factual promotional picture placed on the page should not be removed. Your consistent removal of the photo shows that you are doing more than trying to undermine factual proof of his inclusion in the band, but you are working to literally cause undue stress and harassment. There is simply no reason for you to remove the photo over and over.


 * As it has been proven through conversation with associated personell in the band, I have found that you, from the UK, are not actually affiliated with anthrax, but are a desperate fan trying to better your visibility in the artists' knowledge of you by working to "trash" an artist who is no longer with the band. The desecration of factual and historical data also undermines the efforts of the staff at Wikipedia who strive to provide the best representation for people seeking truth in historical data online. simply STOP trying to harm Neil Turbin's page and find something better to do with your time. No one is impressed with your activities, including the current members of Anthrax. Grow Up!
 * --- — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.184.43.255 (talk) 05:53, 16 March 2013 (UTC)


 * I have taken the liberty of indenting comments by the IP, as it makes the talk page easier to read.


 * As to the position of Turbin and the original vocalist...as i said above, someone's not going to be happy whatever the article says. At least we might be getting closer, though, with some references now being given.
 * For the photo, i certainly didn't remove it, so please watch your accusations. I believe it was removed by a bot because it had been deleted from Commons.  I don't deal with files and images ~ they are beyond my expertise.
 * Finally, congratulations on finding my motivation, my level of fandom, and my complete desperation. Actually, i literally could not care less about Turbin, Anthrax, or the noise they generate.  If you look at my contributions you'll see a large number of different subjects i also don't care about.  My sole motivation is to improve Wikipedia. Cheers, LindsayHello 07:48, 16 March 2013 (UTC)


 * It sure seems funny that by hiding behind minimal "other changes" you've made on other pages, your biggest work has been repetitively desecrating this page. Hardly a noteworthy effort for "bettering Wikipedia." How about you just stop making changes on the Neil Turbin related material, that of which you are clearly not all knowledgeable about. Let the professionals do their job. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.184.43.255 (talk) 02:20, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Original vocalist.
This section has been copied and slightly reformatted from User talk:Thrashiq. Cheers, Lindsay 14:22, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

Please read the talk page before reverting to your statement he's the original vocalist. This needs verification, especially since it can be shown he was not. Thank you. Cheers, Lindsay 07:40, 7 May 2008 (UTC)


 * Please get a handle on this and get your facts straight Lindsay. Where did you learn about metal?  Neil Turbin is/was the original singer of Anthrax.  Jason Rosenfeld, Scott Ian Rosenfeld's adolescent kid brother was a temporary singer for a few months, because they couldn't find a suitable singer.  He was a 14 year old kid that Scott made sing for his band while they tried to get a real frontman/singer who actually had been in a band before and could actually sing and perform in front of an audience.  John Connelly was a roadie for Anthrax who tried out for the band a few times, which does not now or ever make him a member of Anthrax.  Neither Jason or John did anything notable regarding Anthrax other than being related to the band or being a friend of the band and helping to move equipment.  To prove that Neil Turbin was the original singer of Anthrax, shows whats wrong with Wikipedia in the first place.  Here's the facts/proof positive that you seem to be unaware of which is likely due in part to revisionist history perpetrated over years by the band itself and publicist. The New Rolling Stone Album Guide by Nathan Brackett, Christian David Hoarde.http://books.google.com/books?id=lRgtYCC6OUwC&pg=PA20&lpg=PA20&dq=original+anthrax+vocalist+neil+turbin+1999&source=web&ots=QA3XIa_u6C&sig=BuwF49i6D9GF0d5W8xtLJ3BB57s&hl=en

http://www.knac.com/article.asp?ArticleID=368 http://www.metal-rules.com/zine/content/view/779/0/


 * As a member of Anthrax Interview with Joey Belladonna who admits who the first singer of Anthrax was. http://209.85.173.104/search?q=cache:sdzGbrKRuioJ:www.fullinbloommusic.com/anthraxjoey.html+original+anthrax+vocalist&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=13&gl=us
 * Thrashiq(Thrashiq (talk) 09:18, 7 May 2008 (UTC))
 * Thank you, Thrashiq, now we're getting somehwere. Please be polite, and assume good faith; my goal is, i assume, the same as yours ~ to make this as good and accurate as possible.  The link you have given, however, does not seem to mention Turbin at all, so i'm having trouble understanding how it is a valid reference.  If you are actually quoting the book, i suggest yo take a look at this page which will help you do so in a manner that is replicatable for others.  If you already know this, i apologise.  The same page will also show you how to format the link/reference so that it show properly in the page.
 * I would also point out that links to YouTube are often frowned upon and may be removed; they certainly need reformatting to show properly.
 * Let me reiterate, my goal is to make this as good as can be; i have no axe to grind, and am happy to help if need be. Cheers, Lindsay 12:29, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

End of cutandpaste section.
 * I am revisiting this point, because it is clear that Turbin was not the 'original' vocalist by any understanding of the word. 'Original' in this use refers to the first of a series; even if they were people pulled off the street, with no ability whatsoever, these people mentioned above sang with the band, and thus were vocalists.  I shall indicate that he was the first recorded singer; will that do?  Cheers, Lindsay 05:39, 9 May 2008 (UTC)


 * It is getting to be a hair-brained argumentative repeat of hacking from the person who keeps changing the factual information about Neil Turbin's career. It is more than just changing statements about the artist's history, the person is slanderously taking down official images, over and over. It is becoming n obvious blatant personal attack on the career of Turbin and is not appreciated from a standpoint of fans. It has to end, wikipedia is becoming a playground for the retarded. View details on the band's first album, Neil IS the original recording vocalist of the band, it cannot be disputed. it is factually printed on the actual album. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Audibility (talk • contribs) 00:50, 14 March 2013 (UTC)


 * As a minor point, what you say in this paragraph, Audibility, is different from what i have changed in the article in the past. You say "Neil IS the original recording vocalist"; i removed the claim that Turbin was the "original vocalist".  Your phrase may well be true ~ probably is ~ as you seem to have a reference for it; the other was not. Cheers, LindsayHello 07:48, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Revisionist History about Neil Turbin
Why Peter Fleet do you revert information that is innacurate, unfounded and false about power thrash vocalist Neil Turbin, original singer of Anthrax who sang on Fistful Of Metal, Armed and Dangerous (2 songs Soldiers Of Metal and Howling Furies). How do you know he was fired. Were you there. Do you know there are conflicting reports of the circumstances. Perhaps you spoke with Neil Turbin and know information that everyone else didn't know. Your editing changes are under the auspice of truth and fact when you have the facts wrong and you are pretending to be neutral but your jagged opinion is anything but neutral. So much for the Wikipedia Neutral Policeman that you are perpetrating. Please do not Vandalize the Neil Turbin Wikipedia page with your false information. Neil Turbin is a power vocalist. He is different than the singers of all of the big 4 bands of THrash: Anthrax, Metallica, Slayer and Megadeth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thrashiq (talk • contribs) 16:22, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

In a certain Neil Turbin interview around the release of his album under the band Deathriders, he mentions the process of a band member vote through which Dan Lilker was fired from Anthrax. Turbin goes on to say that Scott Ian felt responsible for the decision, and personally told Dan Lilker his exclusion from the band through a phonecall. Now, getting back to Neil Turbin, he does not mention the reasons for being fired, but says he later got a call from Scott Ian and that was the end. Ok, I found the link;

http://www.metalunderground.com/news/details.cfm?newsid=24485

" Metal-Rules.com: Is it really true that you fired Dan Lilker back in the day?

Neil Turbin: No, not at all. No one gave me the keys to the kingdom, I wasn't in charge of ANTHRAX and never had that kind of decision-making power over the rest of the band. We were a band on a record label, so no, I didn't have that kind of control over the band. No one died and left me in charge. It was a band decision and not my personal decision. The label and management were behind the bands decision to replace Dan Lilker. There were four members in the band and the three other than myself could've outvoted me, if they wanted to. Scott called Dan Lilker and broke the news to him. Scott called me the same exact way. That was before they invented email. They just used me as a scapegoat after I was out of the band. If they wanted him so badly, why didn't they invite him back to rejoin the band when they had the chance? "

Now, I would love to weigh the balance of this story with Scott's account of the events, but I have no luck with that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.56.120.143 (talk) 16:16, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

POV check
This article has a long history of peacocking and POV pushing. The subject of the article itself is barely passable of WP:BIO and is only present because of his participation in a notable band. A participation which was extremely brief and barely a footnote in that band's entire biography now. It would appear as though the article has been puffed out with loose citations and content from either the subject of the article himself... or someone extremely close to him who wants to make a fanpage of of an encyclopedia article which, had this person not been in Anthrax, he would not even have an article at all. Mr Pyles (talk) 01:38, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Complaint
Facts about Turbin's history, as well as definitive pictures seem to have been removed from this page in what appears to be vandalism. It appears that based on the users history that there are other instances of wiki-abuse and vandalism on other artists pages. The page should be returned to the factual data as posted on January 2013. — Precedingunsigned comment added by Audibility (talk • contribs) 22:59, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

The preceding has been cutandpasted from an earlier section where it had inappropriately been stuck. Cheers, LindsayHello 19:30, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Attempted cleanup
I keep trying to clean up the article, particularly the Anthrax section, but my edits keep being reverted and disregarded as vandalism. However, I find many issues in the edit it's being reverted back to:

"Neil Turbin (born December 24, 1963) is an American thrash metal vocalist known for being the original Anthrax singer on Fistful Of Metal and 45 first single Soldiers Of Metal released in 1983 and the first full-time vocalist for American band Anthrax and current lead vocalist and songwriter of the heavy metal band DeathRiders. " The lead section as it stands above basically says "he is known for being a former lead singer of Anthrax and a former lead singer of Anthrax" The editor(s) is/are desperately trying to prove that he is the original lead singer, so it seems. So much that they haven't proof-read their edits and how they flow with the rest of the article. While Turbin seems to have been the first singer for the band to have a permanent role, I am still very on the edge about Turbin being referred to as the ORIGINAL singer. It gives the impression to me that he is a founding member despite joining the band over a year after its formation. Before Turbin, Anthrax has John Conelly (a roadie who auditioned for a period of time) and Jason Rosenfeld (Scott Ian's brother who filled in as singer).

Also, it isn't necessary to list all the releases he appeared on with the band in the lead section. That's like if someone tried to claim Paul Di'Anno was the original lead singer of Iron Maiden by listing the two studio albums he appeared on and all the singles/EPs in his lead section. That kind of thing belongs in a "discography" section of all places.

The "Anthrax" section in this edit is very messy and disorganised and is in one big paragraph. The section seems to repeat certain pieces of information multiple times throughout, and also lacks chronological order here and there. (I have attempted to resolve these issues in my edits) For example, the section begins with "Turbin was the original Anthrax vocalist" and later we read "Turbin was an original member of Anthrax," as well as there being multiple mentions that he performed on "Fistful of Metal".

Whilst the book "Metallica: The Frayed Ends of Metal" is well cited, the quotation from it reads "“Ultimately to become New York’s greatest contribution to the Thrash Metal scene, the original members of Anthrax were Neil Turbin, guitarist Scott Ian, a guitarist recruited from Overkill named Dan Spitz, bassist Dan Lilker and drummer Charlie Benante." I'm not really sure what the significance of this quotation is, as it claims that Dan Spitz and Charlie Benante were original members as well as Turbin, which they were not. Also, if the book is primarily about Metallica, it's bound to contain mistakes about other bands it may only briefly cover.

Whilst we're on the subject of Neil Turbin's status as "original singer", mentioning that he was on all of the early demos doesn't exactly prove this. That's like saying Keith Moon was the original drummer of The Who and not Doug Sandom, just because Keith Moon played on all of the early demos too.

Hopefully the guy who keeps reverting my edits will read this and understand why I keep changing it back to my revision of the article.

Turbin is a pioneer of the thrash metal vocal style
I removed this content as the source is an interview with Turbin himself. Not a reliable source. Spacecowboy420 (talk) 11:32, 6 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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