Talk:Neo Arcadia

in-universe
First and foremost, remember that you're summarizing a story, not telling a history. Make sure you're using eternal present ("These Reploids form a Resistance," not "These Reploids formed a Resistance"), and attributing everything to a fictional work, not just with references, but with callouts in the prose.


 * "Mega Man Zero 3 describes the Elf Wars as decimating 70% of the Reploid population and 30% of humans."

This is good.


 * The Clone X retained all of the original's battle abilities and potential to grow more powerful, but lacked the emotional experience needed and maturity to decide upon issues. At the time of his creation, Neo Arcadia possessed many economical issues, one of which was its energy supply and management. In answer to this, the Copy X declared the Reploids of Neo Arcadia the problem of energy consumption and decreed their execution on a massive scale. Additionally, these Reploids (whom most were innocent of any crime) were deemed the term of "Maverick" and human citizens considered altogether with a higher respect in the society.

This is bad. Where is all of this coming from? Is it the plot of a game? Backstory? A dramatic reveal late in a game? How does the player learn these things?

This is a problem in all of the articles I've tagged with in-universe, and indeed most of the Mega Man character and place articles. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 12:35, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * You have deeply confused me there. These are MOS problems, which as you described can be adressed by a person not standard in the subject. Why not fix them..? You obviously have the outside view required to fix the problems.


 * The Clone X retained all of the original's battle abilities and potential to grow more powerful, but lacked the emotional experience needed and maturity to decide upon issues. At the time of his creation, Neo Arcadia possessed many economical issues, one of which was its energy supply and management. In answer to this, the Copy X declared the Reploids of Neo Arcadia the problem of energy consumption and decreed their execution on a massive scale. Additionally, these Reploids (whom most were innocent of any crime) were deemed the term of "Maverick" and human citizens considered altogether with a higher respect in the society.


 * I provided a reference for that. -Randall Brackett 12:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not that you need a reference; you need to call out the fictionality of fictional things, and attribute them to fictional works. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 12:49, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Answer the remainder of the comment, please. These are MOS problems, which as you described can be adressed by a person not standard in the subject. Why not fix them..? You obviously have the outside view required to fix the problems. -Randall Brackett 12:51, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Because the article lacks the context to fix them for those who aren't already steeped in the subject. And please don't remove the tag again without fixing anything. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 13:00, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I thought I did. In the meantime I left a note on the policy talkpage for more help on the matter. -Randall Brackett 13:03, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

I've read the In-Universe WP and I can't see how this article violates it. The WP clearly states that if the fictionality is called upon and the thing is clearly referenced, if it is made clear the article is talking about fiction, then it's okay. I can't see what's wrong, though I have edited the first two sentences to be more clear. Wolf ODonnell 14:43, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

It's not enough to say "As described by the character Ciel over the course of the games". What games?


 * These Reploids form a Resistance led by the scientist Ciel and sought to escape the clutches of Neo Arcadia, forming small bands scattered about the region. However, this proves futile, as per Neo Arcadia's destructive army, including the Golems and mass-produced Pantheons. This incites Ciel to seek out the legendary Reploid known as Zero who was contained in stasis. Led to an abandoned underground facility, they awakened him and Zero set to opposition of the Neo Arcadia regime.

Where is this coming from? Game? What game? Backstory? Backstory of what game?

This needs to be done, paragraph by paragraph (and often sentence by sentence), for every single one of these articles. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 14:49, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Hmm, reading the policy it doesn't describe the documentation pharagraph by pharagraph. And it would be irrelevent in this case as the pharagraphs above it state which game(s) the information came from. This is nitpicking and furthur entrenched in redundancy. I have made a few modifications to the pharagraph, however. -Randall Brackett 15:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * It's not redundancy. It's context, and it's important. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 15:06, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

This is a good example of adding real-world context. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 15:08, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * It was redundant in the way you intially described it. Yes, that's sensible, although the edit is more of a clarification than that of adding real-world context. Making real-world context entells simply making note to the fictional universe it derived from. -Randall Brackett 15:15, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * How carefully did you read WP:WAF? Each of the examples is a Goofus and Gallant setup; the first example in each set is bad, and the second one is good. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 15:18, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * The crux is not of the policy but in the way you described it, which confused me. -Randall Brackett 15:20, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, you didn't really make it all that clear. As far as we were concerned, the policy was fulfilled with the article. Now that I've gone over the entire Neo Arcadia article, I've realised that this was never an In Universe perspective issue, but a reference issue, and if you had stated that in the first place I would have happily made the appropriate changes. As such I went through the entire article and put references to everything I could lay my hands on. Wolf ODonnell 15:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * Well... *sigh* I'm not explaining myself very well. I'm trying to say that fictional people, places, and things should be handled as fictional whatever, instead of in a historical style. Take a look at Solid Snake (I wish I had an example I didn't mostly write myself handy at the moment); instead of telling Snake's story, it instead talks about Snake as a part of several video games.
 * Part of this is using present tense when talking about fictional events. (Remember, Mega Man X is just as much present as MMZ4; any time I turn on my SNES and copy of MMX, the events are happening right then.) Part of this is talking as much about the work of fiction itself as the fictional object. Part of this is constantly calling out the fictionality of the subject. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 15:37, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I did as far as MMZ2. Can you guys take it from here, given that start? I just got called over to a project that looks like it will be (frankly) a lot more fun. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 16:53, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Neo Arcadia
Mr. Brackett, A Man In Black is correct. From the reference I gave him, it clearly states Neo Arcadia treated Reploids as second class citizens. Though that isn't the definition of Maverick in the Megaman Universe, which I understand is why you altered his change, AMIB made a perfectly correct statement about the Reploids. Wolf ODonnell 16:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * What reference...? Reploids were already second class citizens to begin with. When they made a tiny screw-up then they were labled "mavericks" and subsequently executed. A Maverick has no class of citizenship. They are considered fugitives and outlaws pursued for their demise. I didn't make a mistake. See the games. -Randall Brackett 16:04, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Futzing around with the second para

 * Neo Arcadia is hinted at in Mega Man X5, when Mega Man X expresses his wish to build an "Elysium" where humans and reploids can coexist, but it is first introduced in Mega Man Zero, where it is instead a technologically-advanced dystopia, where the oppressive government has marked various reploids for death as dangerous "Mavericks".

Edit that copy to your hearts' content. Edit war over it with every single talk post you like. Copy it and argue about whichever version of it you like.

Until you two agree, though, stop editing the one in the main article, which now just says that Neo Arcadia is oppressive. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 16:18, 18 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I'll edit what I please. When I see a mistake I ammend it. Your previous edits convinced one that you don't know some things about the series. That's not my problem. -Randall Brackett 16:19, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * You two obviously disagree. I don't care (I think this should be a redirect to Mega Man Zero (series)). Resolve the disagreement on talk. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 16:24, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Check the history. Wolf and I never reverted. He merely made a note on the talkpage. The edit conflicts you've been experiencing is me cleaning up your discrepecies. Do you always make accusations of edit warring when don't check the history..? -Randall Brackett 16:27, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Just...you two, agree on who is a Maverick and who isn't and what's done to Mavericks and then add it to the article when you two agree. I don't know who's doing it, but I keep seeing grammatically incorrect, self-contradictory changes to that sentence, and I don't have a clue what's going on. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 16:31, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * When you're ready to check the edit history, we can discuss this furthur. I do not tolerate basless accusations. -Randall Brackett
 * Okay. You were the only one reverting grammatically incorrect, self-contradictory changes to the sentence into the article. You two discuss who's a Maverick and what's done to Mavericks and get back to me. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 16:40, 18 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh I'm done. I'm simply watching your diffs closely and cleaning up after you. -Randall Brackett 16:45, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Who the Hell ever said I disagreed with Mr. Brackett on the definition of a Maverick in the Megaman Universe? I never said that. I stated, AMIB, that what you stated was technically correct though it was not a definition of a Maverick. Here is the exact statement I made:


 * Mr. Brackett, A Man In Black is correct. From the reference I gave him, it clearly states Neo Arcadia treated Reploids as second class citizens. Though that isn't the definition of Maverick in the Megaman Universe, which I understand is why you altered his change, AMIB made a perfectly correct statement about the Reploids. Wolf ODonnell 16:01, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Not once, did I ever disagree with Randall on the definition of a Maverick. If you had bothered to read the bit in bold, you would have seen that I disagreed with you on the definition of a Maverick. I merely pointed out that you made a technically correct statement about the treatment of the Reploids, but not about the definition of a Maverick.

Wolf ODonnell 11:07, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * I've no idea what AMIB thinks he's playing at. Its simply preposterous to say we edit warred or argued. Of course we're not. See my response to Wolf on this. In short, the term misrepresents the term maverick quite comprehensively by giving the impression of a Reploid that purposely did something against society. The crux of the problem was with AMIB's interpretation of the passage and it notified me he doesn't have the knowedge base to make consitently correct contributions on the subject. -Randall Brackett 13:29, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Reference System
I dislike the reference system used here in this article, because it's only for websites. What if I want to reference something from a booklet or one of the Remastered Tracks? That's why I'm suggesting perhaps we can change the reference system to the one I've implemented here. Or perhaps we can use a combination of both? Wolf ODonnell 14:30, 19 July 2006 (UTC)


 * What are you trying to reference...? List them here, please. -Randall Brackett 14:35, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Nothing as of yet, but perhaps we will need to reference Remastered Tracks in the future when we move the individual articles of the Neo Arcadians from List of Mega Man Zero characters. Wolf ODonnell 09:51, 20 July 2006 (UTC)