Talk:Nerve agent

Lists of uncited chemicals
On 24 July, 79.12.242.18 added two long lists of chemicals in this series of edits. There are no citations for these chemicals. I propose to remove these lists.-- Toddy1 (talk) 15:59, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 * You have my support. These chems are not only unsourced, the text is also poorly formatted (e.g. chemically) and poorly integrated into the article. Also, just listing a bunch of chems and classifying them without telling why they are classified the way they are is not very useful info to the reader. Keministi (talk) 19:45, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I have reverted the edits in question.--  Toddy1 (talk) 19:59, 9 August 2018 (UTC)
 * linked (few), from various web (chem mil etc) sources
 * to shorten the lines, i t s iso ter sec , for i3 s3 mean PO O/S CH(R) (CH) X/N/CN/.. for i , s : P OS ch2 (ch) CH(R) N/X , see GV igv or v analogues
 * or the structures ( C n H n N O P S F Cl Br I ... ) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.23.226.73 (talk) 08:52, 14 August 2018 (UTC)


 * ===G-series===
 * ===G-series===

The G-series (Trilon) is thus named because German scientists first synthesized them. G series agents are known as non-persistent, while the V series are persistent. All of the compounds in this class were discovered and synthesized during or prior to World War II, led by Gerhard Schrader (later under the employment of IG Farben).

This series is the first and oldest family of nerve agents. The first nerve agent ever synthesised was GA (tabun) in 1936. GB (sarin) was discovered next in 1939, followed by GD (soman) in 1944, and finally the more obscure GF (cyclosarin) in 1949. GB was the only G agent that was fielded by the US as a munition, in rockets, aerial bombs, and artillery shells.

R' POF OR", POX (CN Cl) PONR2 , OR" containing N
 * GA (Tabun), GB Sarin , GC Chlorosarin , GD Soman , GE Ethylsarin , GF Cyclosarin , GP / GV
 * EA G Agents
 * EA-4352 NMet2 PO(CN) OiPr2
 * EA-1356 / 3534 = O 2-CH3-cyclohexyl methyl phosphonofluoridate (also 3 Met cyHex, 4 Met cyHex isomers)
 * EA-5488 NMet2 POF O 2-quinuclidinyl
 * EA5414 NMet2 POF O CH2CH2CH2 NMet2
 * EA5928 terBu POF O iPr


 * EA5533 CH3 PO(O Et) S Et
 * T2132 sBuO POF CH3, T2137 (CH3)2CHCH(CH3)O POF CH3
 * (CH3)2CHCH2CH(CH3)O POF CH3
 * EA 5615, 5636 ; 5533 R"O PO(*) SR"'
 * EA2233 CH3 POF S cyclohexyl, 2222 CH3 POF SCH3 & PS F OCH3
 * EA1356 methyl cyclohexyl methyl phosphonofluoridate
 * EA2098 2012 2054 2613 trimethylammonium benzen O alkylic methyl phosphonates (halide F I Br CN, BF4 or CH3OSO2/3)
 * EA2276 ?, EA1788
 * cyclobutyl POF OiPr, CH3POF O cyBu , CH3PO(OiPR)O cyBu
 * Ethylsoman CH3CH2PO(F)OCH(CH3)C(CH3)3
 * Et Pr iPr substituited GA GB GD GF analogues


 * Tabun Fluorotabun types, DFP , poly NR2 (eg mipafox shradan)
 * G11 NPr2 PO(CN) OEt


 * NFK (bicyclo)
 * Tammelin's Esters
 * R' PO F O (CH) NR2
 * CH = 1 to 5 6, mainly 2 3 i3 s3 , R = CH3 , C2H5 , (CH3)2CH
 * and R' PO F O (CH) N+R2R" X− / Anion -


 * GV class
 * NR'2 PO F O (CH) NR2
 * CH = 1 to 3 (or more), mainly 2 , R = CH3 , C2H5 , (CH3)2CH
 * GV1 NMet2 POF O CH2CH2 NEt2
 * GV2 NEt2 POF O CH2CH2 NMet2
 * GV3 NEt2 POF O CH2CH2 NEt2
 * GV4 NMet2 POF O CH2CH(CH3) NMet2, or NMet2 POF O CH2CH2CH2 NMet2
 * GV5 NEt2 POF O CH2CH(CH3) NMet2, or OCH2CH2CH2N
 * IGV4 O CH(CH3)CH2N GV4, IGV5 O CH(CH3)CH2N GV5
 * IVA NR2 POF OEtNR2 NR2 = N(CH3)2, EtO PO(NR2/NEt2) OEtNR2
 * EA5414 (GV4), 5366 analog GV , 5403 NMet2 POF OCH(CH3)CH2NMet2


 * ===V-series===

The V-series (Amiton) is the second family of nerve agents and contains five well known members: VE, VG, VM, VP (O 3 3 5 trimethyl cyclohexyl methyl phosphonate O 3-Pyridyl), EA-3148 O cyclopentyl methyl phosphonate S ethyl diethylamine , VR, VS and VX EA1701 , along with several more obscure analogues.
 * V1M O Propyl C3H7O PO (CH3) S CH2CH2 N(CH(CH3)2)2, V1 fluoro PO F C10H25NO2SPF
 * V1 NMet2 VX, V2 NEt2 VX , V4 V5 same NR2 as VX , or different RO-P , R-P
 * V2 isoPropyl C3H7O PO CH3 S C2H4 N(iPr)2, or NPr2 or NEt2
 * V3 isobutyl V2, V4 N(Et)2 VX , V5 (Vx ?) N(CH3)2 VX
 * V4 & V5 alt = EtO/RO PO(R/CH3) SCH2CH2NiPr2
 * V6 EtO PO Met S CH2CH2 NCH3 CH(CH3)2


 * GVX or VXG, EtO POF S CH2CH2 NiPr2 , CH3 PO(OH) SEtNiPr2
 * PP-VX EtO PO(Pr) SCH2CH2NiPr2, EtO PO(Et) SCH2CH2NEt2
 * VNE EtO PO(CH3) SCH2NHCH2CH3


 * Vx (or model Vx agent) N(CH3)2 NR2 substituited VX
 * Vx alt iBuO NMet2 subst VX, VVX VWX , VXVX , IVX IVx , IIVX
 * IIVx, EtO / R"O PO R' (CH3) S CH2 NR2 (CH3 Et iPr Pr)
 * IIVX EtO PO CH3 S CH2NEt2, IITX EtO PO CH3 S CH2 NMet2

IVX1/2/3/4/5/6, RO PO(R) (R isoAlkyl , iPr) or S CH(CH3)CH2NR2
 * Vsubx EtO PO Met S CH2CH2 S C2H5
 * VXL PrS PO iPr S CH(CH3)CH2CH(CH3)NMet2
 * OEt PO CH3 S CH2 NR2, S CH2CH2CH2 NR2 (Et iPr)
 * , S CH2CH(CH3), S CH(CH3)2CH2


 * CVX (chinese VX), VXC , O butyl or iBu tBu iPr iPent sPent tPent etc substituited N(Et)2 (or NiPr2)
 * EA V Agents
 * EA3317 NiPr2 (s ch n fragment) of EA3148 O cyPe
 * O cyclohexyl S diethylaminoethyl methylphosphonothionate
 * EtO EthylPhosphonothionate S dimethylaminoethyl
 * EtO EthylPhosphonothionate S Piperidinethyl
 * iPrO VX NEt2, O cyHex PO CH3 SCH2CH2NEt2
 * EtO PO (R') SCH2CH2NEt2 R' = Pr/Bu/Hex/iPr


 * EA5852 5696, 1508 1533 1671 analog VX 5366 3317 , 1724 2192 OH (OEt) VX
 * EA1699 CH3 PO(OH) SEtNMet2
 * R"O PO R' S (CH)n NR2, R" & R' = c1 to c5 c6 (or more) , iPr Pent Hex ...


 * == N iv ==

trimethylamine amino > try(alkyl)ammonium, tongueslip , three - five agents with N+ Ar O (ch) o Ar O (ch) phos formulas (a quick ctrl c v search , some are on pt wiki anyway there are outhere , this group is similiar (remotely) to some carbamate agents , EAs substances include carbamates (mainly DMCa N DM) glycolates & co , else (non agents one are some metal alloys with Cu Cr Zn etc) , one : (Ph)4B- 3or5 TMA+ Ph O 1 4 Bu O (-3) (5 TMA+) Ph PO3CH3 OiPr C74H83B2N2O5P,

Detection section
Someone tried to add a detection section that is almost exclusively about one method used to detect nerve agents. WP:UNDUE says that "Neutrality requires that each article or other page in the mainspace fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources..." Given that there are many methods of detecting nerve agents, having a section labelled detection that is just about one of them gives a distorted and inaccurate view of the topic. The section is shown below:-- Toddy1 (talk) 14:48, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

=== Detection ===

Laser photoacoustic spectroscopy (LPAS) is a method that has been used to detect nerve agents in the air. In this method, laser light is absorbed by gaseous matter. This causes a heating/cooling cycle and changes in pressure. Sensitive microphones convey sound waves that result from the pressure changes. Scientists at the U.S. Army Research Laboratory engineered an LPAS system that can detect multiple trace amounts of toxic gases in one air sample.

This technology contained three lasers modulated to different frequency, each producing a different sound wave tone. The different wavelengths of light were directed into a sensor referred to as the photoacoustic cell. Within the cell were the vapors of different nerve agents. The traces of each nerve agent had a signature effect on the “loudness” of the lasers’ sound wave tones. Some overlap of nerve agents’ effects did occur in the acoustic results. However, it was predicted that specificity would increase as additional lasers with unique wavelengths were added. Yet, too many lasers set to different wavelengths could result in overlap of absorption spectra. LPAS technology can identify gases in parts per billion (ppb) concentrations.

The following nerve agents have been identified with this multiwavelength LPAS:


 * dimethyl methyl phosphonate (DMMP)
 * diethyl methyl phosphonate (DEMP)
 * diisopropyl methyl phosphonate (DIMP)
 * dimethylpolysiloxane (DIME), triethyl phosphate (TEP)
 * tributyl phosphate (TBP)
 * two volatile organic compounds (VOCs)
 * acetone (ACE)
 * isopropanol (ISO)

Other gases and air contaminants identified with LPAS include:


 * CO2
 * Benzene
 * Formaldehyde
 * Acetaldehyde
 * Ammonia
 * NOx
 * SO2
 * Ethylene Glycol
 * TATP
 * TNT

Other reported methods of detecting nerve agents are non-dispersive infrared (NDIR), traditional IR absorption and Fourier transform infrared (FTIR) spectroscopy.

Antidote to treatment
Can't see why anyone will have a problem with this but thought I'd play it safe. I renamed the "antidote" section to "treatment" - some of the drugs mentioneddo not act as antidote (ie "a remedy to counteract the effects of poison" MW) - atropine reduces the effect a nerve agent has on the body rather than counteracting the toxin. It also mentions two separate treatments, pralidoxime and atropine, noting that they may be administered together. Standard treatment for nerve agent poisoning is to administer both (eg army issue autoinjectors such as ATNAA and Mark I NAAK contain both of these drugs), to administer one on without the other is far less effective. Everything is cited so feel free to check it out. I also added Pyridostigmine bromide to the countermeasures in development section; it is preexisting so the section needed renamed, unsure of what is appropriate so just went with "Countermeasures". Alternatively can be split into two sections; maybe one on the development of nerve agent treatments as a whole. My knowledge of this stuff isn't huge so further additions may be beyond me! Comment if you have any issues/ideas! Editor/123 17:22, 27 July 2020 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ben8142 (talk • contribs)

Capitalization?
Are nerve agents capitalized? FinnSoThin (talk) 00:48, 4 July 2022 (UTC)

Should there be a section about the illegality of use?
https://www.reuters.com/world/what-are-chemicals-weapons-are-they-illegal-2022-04-12/
 * Chemical weapons production, use and stockpiling is banned under the 1997 Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC). Only Egypt, North Korea and South Sudan have not signed or ratified the international arms control treaty.

Daniel.Cardenas (talk) 21:20, 6 June 2024 (UTC)